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Re: [166] Organize documents so they may be read without style sheets

From: Jonathan O'Donnell <jonathan.odonnell@ngv.vic.gov.au>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:44:57 +1000
To: Joe Clark <joeclark@joeclark.org>, WAI <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <BB2651C9.3600%jonathan.odonnell@ngv.vic.gov.au>

On 26/06/2003 2:17 AM, Joe Clark at joeclark@joeclark.org wrote:

>> Here are some examples of documents that differ when rendered
>> without a style sheet (or with a browser's default style sheet).  I
>> hope that this helps to clarify the discussion.
> 
> This is valuable and, indeed, surprising information. Now, could we
> run the same test on the tiny number of W3C members with valid-HTML
> homepages?
> 
> <http://www.markokarppinen.com/20020822.html>
> 
> If we see the same effects there-- and let's assume valid CSS, which
> is even less prevalent than valid HTML-- then we've certainly got
> something to talk about. Now, whether we have something to *regulate*
> in WCAG 2.0 is a separate question.

Hello Joe and all

Following Joe's suggestion, I tested pages drawn from "Things can only get
better", by Marko Karppinen
    http://www.markokarppinen.com/20020822.html

The sample set was small, and didn't show any real differences.  Only three
pages showed any semantic difference at all, and I suspect that none of them
had anything to do with CSS. Does anyone have a bigger sample set of pages
with valid HTML and CSS?

The following pages exhibited differences:

Equal Access Testing Pty Ltd.
    http://www.equalaxs.com/
There is huge amounts of white space between the text when style sheets are
turned off.
Not really a semantic difference, I guess.

Royal National Institute for the Blind (RNIB)
    http://www.rnib.org.uk/
Without style sheets, I can't scroll to the bottom of the page (there is no
scroll bar).  Therefore, I can't reach the copyright statement.  This may
just be a Windows Netscape Communicator 4.79 bug, rather than a html/css
bug.

Western Australian Department of Industry and Technology
    http://www.indtech.wa.gov.au/new/index-text.htm (no CSS)
    http://www.indtech.wa.gov.au/new/index.htm (with CSS)
The server delivered two different pages.  The non-CSS page does not have
three sentences that the CSS page has.  It looks like three links that were
added to one version but not the other.

I rendered pages without CSS (ie with basic browser rendering) on Windows
Netscape Communicator 4.79
I rendered pages with CSS on Windows Internet Explorer 6.0
I tested these pages on 28 June 2003, between about 7 pm and 8 pm Australian
Eastern Standard Time.

-- 
Jonathan O'Donnell
04 2575 5829
http://purl.nla.gov.au/net/jod/
mailto:jonathan.odonnell@ngv.vic.gov.au
Received on Monday, 30 June 2003 19:07:24 GMT

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