W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-gl@w3.org > April to June 2003

Re: Avoid deprecated features query

From: Kerstin Goldsmith <kerstin.goldsmith@oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:39:30 -0700
Message-ID: <3EDFD4B2.1050903@oracle.com>
To: gv@trace.wisc.edu
CC: "'Kynn Bartlett (by way of Wendy A Chisholm <wendy@w3.org>)'" <kynnbartlett@yahoo.com>, w3c-wai-gl@w3.org

Hear, Hear -- we have had "problems" trying to enfore any "avoid" 
guidelines specifically because of the "avoid" word.  I vote for Gregg's 
proposal of wording.

-Kerstin

Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:

>Hmmmm
>
>Looks like there is consensus that we should avoid using the word avoid.
>
>I concur.   Either we say  
>"Try to avoid" - so it is clear that it is not mandatory
>or we use
>"don't use" or    "xxxx is not used"  and be clear that it is not to be
>used. 
>
>AVOID means  " do not use" or "do not go there".  Yet I think we used it
>when we were being a little iffy.    So we were misusing the word.
>
> 
>Gregg
>
> -- ------------------------------ 
>Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
>Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
>Director - Trace R & D Center 
>University of Wisconsin-Madison 
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf
>Of Kynn Bartlett (by way of Wendy A Chisholm <wendy@w3.org>)
>Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:23 PM
>To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
>Subject: RE: Avoid deprecated features query
>
>
>Agreed.
>
>The word "avoid" has been one of the worst stumbling
>blocks for Web developers -- after "until user agents"
>-- in understanding and implementing the Web Content
>Accessibility Guidelines.
>
>Nobody seems to know what "avoid" means.  If WCAG is
>meant to forbid something, it should do so.  If it
>does not mean to forbid something then how can you
>know if you have complied?  (If "avoid" does not mean
>"do not use," then any "avoid" checkbox is by
>definition uncheckable.)
>
>The word "avoid" is one word that -- in the opinion of
>this Web development educator -- should be excised
>from WCAG entirely.  It tells us nothing and guides no
>one.
>
>--Kynn
>
>--- "Montgomery, Gordon"
><Gordon.Montgomery@Staples.com> wrote:
> >
> > The issue seems to be semantic, pivoting around the
> > meaning of the word
> > "avoid" in the guideline.
> >
> > I agree with Pam that "avoid" does not include the
> > sense of  its likely
> > intended meaning: "do not use" [per Wendy 's
> > interpretation]. "Avoid"
> > certainly is more of a "grey" word
> > than a "black or white" one.
> >
> > I suggest need to be clearer and replace "avoid"
> > with "do not use" in the
> > guidelines.
> >
> > This change would then create a more "black and
> > white" decision for those
> > trying to make their whole sites compliant.
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
>http://calendar.yahoo.com 
>
>  
>
Received on Thursday, 5 June 2003 19:40:48 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 7 December 2009 10:47:22 GMT