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Re: accessible forms

From: Doyle B <doyleb@alaska.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:53:14 -0800
Message-ID: <000501c2197e$d0fb50a0$6601a8c0@madyburnett>
To: "Charles McCathieNevile" <charles@w3.org>, "Chris O'Kennon" <chris@vipnet.org>
Cc: "'jonathan chetwynd'" <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>, <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>

To the best of my knowledge and after checking  a few pages that employ the
use pull down menus it is possible to tab out of the pull-down menu and
leave your selection in tact.  In the scenario of using a state list (50
states in the US), one could tab into the pull down menu, arrow down to the
desired selection (the state you wanted) and tab to the next part of the
form.  This is at least the case with Windows (95 and 98) as this navigation
scenario is driven by the operating system and not a particular screen
reader.

But, in my experimenting on a Macintosh computer a few years ago, the
operating system was not so navigational friendly.  Using OutSpoken on the
Mac (and as I said, a few years back) this would not have been possible.
Has the issue of Macintosh use been discussed in terms of the ways it may
read or be able to navigate web pages?  Sometimes we take for granted the
various operating systems and what they do/ or don't do for favorable web
navigation.

Doyle Burnett

Special Education Service Agency
Anchorage, Alaska

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles McCathieNevile" <charles@w3.org>
To: "Chris O'Kennon" <chris@vipnet.org>
Cc: "'jonathan chetwynd'" <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>; <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:21 AM
Subject: RE: accessible forms


>
> Well, with a list this big I would look for ways to break it up beyond a
> single menu (a list of 50 states is as frustrating as I ever want to deal
> with, since I live in "other - non-US" which is almost always at the end
of
> things I deal with).
>
> But there is technology that doesn't require this whole list to be
traversed.
> In Lynx (since the early 90s) as soon as you have selected something you
can
> move past the drop-down (unless you configure it otherwise, and even then
you
> can page through the list). Other tools do this - I would be surprised if
HPR
> doesn't.
>
> Cheers
>
> Charles
>
> On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Chris O'Kennon wrote:
>
>
>   Is the problem, then, one of available technology?  Is there no way to
code
>   for an "escape" from a menu?  And, if someone uses a 200 item menu, will
>   they still conform to the guidelines, or is there a "You did something
too
>   annoying to conform" clause?
>
>   Chris O'Kennon
>   Commonwealth of Virginia Webmaster/
>   VIPNet Portal Architect
>   www.myvirginia.org
>   ______________________________________
>   "Until you have the courage to lose sight of the shore,
>   you will never know the terror of being forever lost at sea."
>
>
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From: jonathan chetwynd [mailto:j.chetwynd@btinternet.com]
>   > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 2:46 PM
>   > To: Chris O'Kennon; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
>   > Subject: Re: accessible forms
>   >
>   >
>   > i've already suggested on many occassions that ~10 links is enough per
>   > page(or form in this case) if one is going to run to
>   > hundreds, then one
>   > certainly needs to design a way to break them up.
>   >
>   > w3 uses something in the navigation at the start of a page
>   > that allows one
>   > to jump across links, perhaps it could include a warning, ie
>   > 200 links.
>   > also one really wants an escape key.
>   >
>   > visual navigation needs a different design criterion to auditory.
>   > for instance at http://www.peepo.com i've arranged for the
>   > 'frame' content
>   > which is on every page (ie the alphabet) to frame the pages
>   > visually, but to
>   > be read last.
>   >
>   > in the interim, i'd recommend arranging for these long lists
>   > to be at the
>   > end of the page
>   >
>   >
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: "Chris O'Kennon" <chris@vipnet.org>
>   > To: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>   > Cc: <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>
>   > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 7:15 PM
>   > Subject: accessible forms
>   >
>   >
>   > >
>   > > I read the client-side scripting draft [1] and the html
>   > techniques for
>   > wcag
>   > > 1.0 [2].  I don't see anything about coding drop-down menus
>   > so a user can
>   > > move from the menu to the next form field without having to
>   > tab through
>   > > everything else in the menu.  For example, the Virginia Commonwealth
>   > > Calendar [3] has several drop-down menus needed to access
>   > the government
>   > > meetings.  In order to select an agency, a screen reader
>   > would then have
>   > to
>   > > go through the rest of the options before the user could go
>   > to the next
>   > form
>   > > field.  Although this allows the application to be
>   > technically used, the
>   > > difficulty in going through 200 agencies makes it effectively
>   > inaccessible.
>   > >
>   > > Could this be addressed in a future draft of the
>   > client-side scripting
>   > > techniques?  Or is it already there and I just missed it?
>   > >
>   > > [1] http://www.learningdifficulty.org/develop/w3c-scripts.html
>   > > [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-WCAG10-HTML-TECHS-20000920/
>   > > [3] http://www.vipnet.org/portal/cgi-bin/calendar.cgi
>   > >
>   > > Chris O'Kennon
>   > > Commonwealth of Virginia Webmaster/
>   > > VIPNet Portal Architect
>   > > www.myvirginia.org
>   > >
>   > > ______________________________________
>   > > "Until you have the courage to lose sight of the shore,
>   > > you will never know the terror of being forever lost at sea."
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   >
>   >
>
>
> --
> Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61 409
134 136
> W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI  fax: +33 4 92
38 78 22
> Location: 21 Mitchell street FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia
> (or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex,
France)
>
>
Received on Friday, 21 June 2002 19:49:40 GMT

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