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RE: Screen reader support for browsers

From: Jim Thatcher <thatch@attglobal.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:40:14 -0500
To: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>, jonathan chetwynd <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>
Cc: john_slatin <john_slatin@forum.utexas.edu>, w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Message-id: <NDBBKJDAKKEJDCICIODLAEFBEDAA.thatch@attglobal.net>
Hi Charles,

The statement of screen reader "support" is debatable. OutSpoken supports
any browser just like other screen readers support any browser - reading the
text written to the screen. Outspoken is not unique in that regard. But it
is hopelessly inadequate for the web. It is inadequate support. Mercator
never "supported" the web either. Emacspeak is great technology used by at
least 4 people and is purely text. The way you write about these things
makes it sound a lot better than it really is.

I don't agree with your assertion about the way screen readers support
browsers either. In fact, JFW parses the HTML, Window-Eyes uses MSAA, and
only HPR uses the DOM ... as their main resource for getting web content and
structure.

Jim
Accessibility Consulting
http://jimthatcher.com
512-306-0931
Constructing Accessible Web Sites, is now available at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151000/jimthatcherco-20/!
I recommend it. It's a good book!


-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of Charles McCathieNevile
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:09 PM
To: jonathan chetwynd
Cc: john_slatin; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: Re: Screen reader support for browsers


well, an example of standardisation on the windows platform is using DOM and
MSAA - apparently this is the critical part of making browsers accesible to
the blind (I guess unless you use a directly accessible browser like
websound
or homepage reader). Netscape have been working hard on this recently and
appear to be making very good progress.

So next roll-outs should be better. I agree that the range of browsers which
sighted people can use is valuable, and not being able to use the same range
is a great shame.

cheers


Chaals

On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, jonathan chetwynd wrote:

  Yes But this is an issue which needs raising.
  'where is the standardisation?'
  its not much **** good if you only get one or two browsers, per reader, or
  visa-versa is it?
  especially if they stop working with the next roll-out.

  thanks

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Charles McCathieNevile" <charles@w3.org>
  To: "john_slatin" <john_slatin@forum.utexas.edu>
  Cc: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
  Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:21 PM
  Subject: Re: Screen reader support for browsers


  > As far as I know, Outspoken supports any browser, since they base their
  model
  > on what is pushed to the screen. Likewise I think mercator (Solaris) did
  > that. I am pretty sure Gnopernicus works with something other than IE
  (since
  > I am pretty sure there is no IE for GNOME, among other things).
  >
  > Emacspeak works like a new-generation screenreader - rather than
strictly
  > reading the screen it hooks into the underlying system (in this case
  emacs)
  > to make an audio desktop. It can support at least emacs/W3 browser and
  Lynx,
  > although there are other browsers that can be run under emacs I believe.
  >
  > Cheers
  >
  > Charles
  >
  > On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, john_slatin wrote:
  >
  >   For what it's worth, I just checked with both Freedom Scientific and
GW
  >   Micro and *neither* of them supports Opera or Lynx, or for that matter
  >   anything other than IE.  I have a query out to DolphinUSA about HAL.
  >
  >   This strikes me as impoverished, to say the least.
  >
  >   John
  >
  >   John Slatin, Ph.D.
  >   Director, Institute for Technology & Learning
  >   University of Texas at Austin
  >   FAC 248C, Mail code G9600
  >   Austin, TX 78712
  >   ph 512-495-4288, f 512-495-4524
  >   email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu <mailto:jslatin@mail.utexas.edu>
  >   web http://www.ital.utexas.edu <http://www.ital.utexas.edu/>
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > --
  > Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61
409
  134 136
  > W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI  fax: +33 4
92
  38 78 22
  > Location: 21 Mitchell street FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia
  > (or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex,
  France)
  >
  >



--
Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61 409
134 136
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI  fax: +33 4 92 38
78 22
Location: 21 Mitchell street FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia
(or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex,
France)
Received on Friday, 19 April 2002 09:41:18 GMT

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