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RE: html code element and speech output

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:51:40 -0400 (EDT)
To: john_slatin <john_slatin@forum.utexas.edu>
cc: "'Gregory J. Rosmaita'" <unagi69@concentric.net>, "'Wendy A Chisholm'" <wendy@w3.org>, "'w3c-wai-gl@w3.org'" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0204181050030.30935-100000@tux.w3.org>
According to Loquendo, their TTS product supports SSML. They have an online
demo of doing (plain) text to speech at
http://www.loquendo.com/en/demos/index.htm and more information on their
product can be found at http://www.loquendo.com/en/products/TTS.htm (I know
nothing about them beyond what I read on the Web, so would be interested in
reports of results...)

cheers

Charles McCN

On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, john_slatin wrote:

  *Is* there a tool that supports SSML? I'd love to play with it.  Use it,
  even, if it actually works.  (I'm not a UNIX person, if that makes a
  difference.)

  John

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Charles McCathieNevile [mailto:charles@w3.org]
  Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:20 am
  To: Gregory J. Rosmaita
  Cc: Wendy A Chisholm; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
  Subject: Re: html code element and speech output


  Another approach to using ACSS in tools would be to convert the document to
  XHTML, and then to turn it into an intermediate XML through the use of local
  javascript, and then to convert that to Speech Synthesis Markup Language
  (SSML) through the use of XSLT, and find a tool that uses this new language
  (being developed as part of the Voice Browser work at W3C.

  As Joe pointed out, messing around a user's speech setup is a pretty bad
  idea in general, so it makes sense to use careful styling based on
  well-described types of objects rather than just assiging style to each
  element. This gives the user the easiest path to override a style and
  provide their own. It would also be helpful if, there were good editors for
  CSS available that handled audio style sheets by example rather than by
  making the user learn the code to write. (this applies to visual properties
  too...)

  Chaals

  On Tue, 16 Apr 2002, Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote:

    aloha, wendy!

    as you know, i'm not quite up to snuff on the real world, but i can tell
    you that you can define any number of aural properties for CODE using the
    speaking properties defined in section 19 of the CSS2
    specification...  most germane are the speech properties
    "speak-punctuation" and "speak-numeral" which are defined in section 19.9,
    as follows:

    <quote href="http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/aural.html#speech-props">
    19.9 Speech properties: 'speak-punctuation' and 'speak-numeral'

    An additional speech property, speak-header, is described in the chapter
  on
    tables

    'speak-punctuation'

    Value: code | none | inherit
    Initial: none
    Applies to: all elements
    Inherited: yes
    Percentages: N/A
    Media: aural

    This property specifies how punctuation is spoken. Values have the
    following meanings:

    code
    Punctuation such as semicolons, braces, and so on are to be spoken
  literally.

    none
    Punctuation is not to be spoken, but instead rendered naturally as various
    pauses.
    </quote>

    here's an example of how one might use CSS2 to have an aural-CSS-aware
    browser indicate items marked-up using the CODE element:

    <example>
    @media aural {
    code { voice-family: robot, male;
             speak-punctuation: code;
             speak-numeral: digits; }
    }
     >/example>

    note 1: i defined 2 values for voice-family (1) a specific-voice value and
    (2) a generic-voice value; - what i'd really like to do is  be able to
    define inverse relationships, so that, for example, if a user had the
  aural
    browser's default voice set to "female", when the UA encountered the CODE
    element, it would aurally "reverse fields" and speak the text marked up as
    CODE in a "male" voice -- obviously, this would be handy in other (mostly?
    exclusively?) binary situations, as well as an ideal way to ensure that
    changes in background and/or foreground color don't collide with client
    side settings (in other words, simply reverse the "color:" and
    "background:" values when rendering a block marked as "foo" or defined by
    the FOO element)

    note 2: one could use a host of other aural properties to aurally
  demarcate
    CODE...a simple pitch change, for example, or a cue-before and cue-after
    event, or a change in the voice characteristics values, such as stress or
    richness...  note that what are generally classed as "synthesized voices"
    are pre-set combinations of voice characteristics - for more details on
  all
    this jargon, consult the URI cited above...

    of course, only an aural-CSS-aware client/application would provide the
    desired aural effect (a voice change) when encountering this example
    markup, although providing the desired effect (a simple voice
    characteristic change) as the result of a DOM call is not only possible,
    but essential, in my opinion -- assistive software needs to be aware of
  the
    UA's generic values (defined in the base style sheet, which for most
  users,
    if not in most browsers, is immutable) and provide analagous values in
    whatever output modality is required...  wherever generic classes have
  been
    defined by the UA (such as for CODE, Q, KBD, SAMP, etc.) an AT needs to
    provide a means of identifying those classes, as well as controlling the
    means of identification -- think of it as equivalent content, for the
    default rendering of CODE as monotype IS content!

    of course, there are also low-tech solutions to the problem, such as
  screen
    scraping, but they are not as efficient nor can they ever be as
    interoperable as an AT that is not only DOM-aware, but CSS-aware...

    just my 2 cents, american, as someone who mostly uses IE6 or lynx in
    conjunction with JAWS 4.02, from which no aural indication of
    content-related elements is obtainable, gregory.

    At 03:27 PM 4/16/02 -0400, you wrote:
    >Hello,
    >
    >Could someone tell me if Jaws, Window Eyes, Home Page Reader, et al give
    >some indication when html code elements have been encountered?
    >
    >e.g. here's a code snippet
    >
    >here's some text
    >here's some code
    >When "here's some code" is read - does it give indication that this is
    >code?  Visually, it is usually shown in a courier font (to make it look
    >more machine-like i suppose).  Just wondering if there is also some audio
    >indication.
    >
    >Could you please include the version and platform of the product that you
    >are using?
    >
    >Thanks,
    >--wendy
    >
    >--
    >wendy a chisholm
    >world wide web consortium
    >web accessibility initiative
    >seattle, wa usa
    >/--

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
    intelligent are full of doubt.                 -- Bertrand Russell
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
                Gregory J. Rosmaita <unagi69@concentric.net>
    Camera Obscura:           http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html
    VICUG NYC:          http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/vicug/index.html
    Read 'Em & Speak:   http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/books/index.html
    ------------------------------------------------------------------





-- 
Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61 409 134 136
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI  fax: +33 4 92 38 78 22
Location: 21 Mitchell street FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia
(or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France)
Received on Thursday, 18 April 2002 10:51:42 GMT

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