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Re: Guideline 3.4 comment (ralative vs. absolute units)

From: Vadim Plessky <lucy-ples@mtu-net.ru>
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:07:33 +0000
Message-Id: <200112151256.fBFCu6H01169@post.cnt.ru>
To: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
Cc: WAI GL <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
On Saturday 15 December 2001 03:31, Charles McCathieNevile wrote:
|   No, the reason that I scaled it based on the font size is that for icons
| the font size that someone chooses is a useful baseline for working out
| sizes. I am currently working in the AU group on icons, and it seems that

I see.
Problem is value of 1em if none of fonts installed (or default font is 
terribly broken, which happens quite often, especially in bad Linux 
I also agree that my solution is also not perfect - authors should probably 
<style type="text/css">
  .icon { width: 30mm; height: 30mm }

Problem with measurement in 'mm' or 'cm' ('inch') that most computer-based 
devices have problems with correct settings of dpi (and determining screen 
As far as I know, neither Macintosh (Mac OS) nor MS Windows can report 
correct dpi settings and real screen size (in cm/mm)
Recent XFree86 builds (say, releases after XF 4.1.0 ~ spring 2001) can 
auto-detect dpi and screen size using (I guess) VESA extensions - but not for 
all cards.
Despite this fact, Mozilla/Linux and Opera/Linux do not respect correct dpi 
settings - so I hardly believe common acceptance of such "broken" browsers 
and platforms (hardware base+operating sustem) helps to promote really 
device-independent, layout-based web designs. :-((

| one of the members of the group uses quite a small text size, or uses small
| icons. I prefer the icons larger, but if I magnify my text I want to
| magnify icons to match, where possible.

I guess you can do that via custom CSS stylesheet, no?
You can define custom CSS like:
  p  { font-size: 150% !important }
  object { width: 150%  !important ;  height: 150%  !important  }
  img { width: 150%  !important ;  height: 150%  !important  }

I am not sure which browsers will support this correctly.
But most likely recent builds of Mozilla should support this, as well as 
If you have some testcase to try (1K-2K in size), I can make experiment with 

Besides, I think you can do such magnification dynamically - via DOM/CSS 
cssRules methods.
I guess you can "scan" existing CSS stylesheet, search for 'font-size', 
'line-height', 'width', 'height' properties and *increase* them via 
JavaScript or another scripting method.
Galeon (based on Mozilla, http://galeon.sourceforge.net) supports "JavaScript 
bookmarks", so you can call such "magnification* method via Bookmark Toolbar 
(very convinient, IMO) 

|   (The example I used assumes that the pg won't scale very well but the SVG
|   will - and assumes that PNG and Gif images will also be deprecated in
| favour of SVG in the real world - I suspect that won't be completely true
| in teh next few months though.)

ah, such an optimistic view! :-))
I wish that was true - but IMO we are 5-8 years from that time.
Despite existance of PNG for several years already - most web sites use GIF.
And, number of 1x1 "transparent" gifs on real-world websites is enermous, and 
it doesn't decrease - in particular because *leading vendors of authoring 
tools* support such practice and auto-generate code with 1x1 gifs.
And this is not only Microsoft/FrontPage to blaim here - IBM, Macromedia, 
Adobe - all they are guilty...

|   Cheers
|   Charles
|   On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Vadim Plessky wrote:
|     On Tuesday 11 December 2001 00:38, Charles McCathieNevile wrote:
|     |   dropped wcag-editor from the thread for the moment.
|     |
|     |   In fact I prefer to have my images also scaled based on my personal
|     | font preferences, but again, the author doesn't know what they are.
|     |
|     |   example code for XHTML with a fallback for an image that is known
|     | not to scale well:
|     |
|     |     <object class="icon" data="mm_tool-svg" type="image/svg+xml">
|     |       <object width="20" height="15" data="mm_tool-raster"
|     | type="image/png"> A multimedia tool
|     |       </object>
|     |     </object>
|     Shouldn't it be:
|     <style type="text/css">
|       .icon { width: 20pt; height: 20pt }
|     </style>
|     ...
|       <object class="icon" data="mm_tool-svg" type="image/svg+xml">
|         <object class="icon" data="mm_tool-raster" type="image/png">
|           A multimedia tool
|         </object>
|       </object>


Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
KDE mini-Themes
Received on Saturday, 15 December 2001 07:56:55 GMT

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