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Re: Proposed text for addressing Checkpoint 3.3 issue (diction cmt.)

From: Al Gilman <asgilman@iamdigex.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:43:29 -0400
Message-Id: <199907282236.SAA134373@relay.interim.iamworld.net>
To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
At 12:02 PM 7/28/99 -0400, Ian Jacobs wrote:
>Reference document:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/WAI-WEBCONTENT-19990505/
>
>Summary of the issue:
>
>  Checkpoint 3.3 reads
>      "Use style sheets to control layout and presentation. [Priority
>2]".
>
>  Content developers feel this is an unfair burden since style sheets
>  aren't supported well across browsers.
>
>  Checkpoint 11.1 reads
>      "Use W3C technologies when they are available and 
>       appropriate for a task and use the latest versions 
>       when supported. [Priority 2]"
>
>  The Guidelines don't make it adequately clear that 11.1 "covers" 3.3. 
>  Furthermore, the Techniques document doesn't make it adequately
>  clear that the CSS [1], [2] implementations MAY take into account
>markup
>  as well as style sheets, so that authors may use both and that
>  style sheets MAY take precedence when supported.

I think that the last 'MAY' may confuse people unnecessarily.  

It would appear from reading the cited clauses in CSS1 and CSS2 that if the
author wishes the stylesheets to take precedence in CSS-compliant user
agents, the combination of HTML 3.2 presentational attributes and CSS
stylesheets can always be written so that the stylesheet will take
precedence.  It may be a hit-or-miss proposition based on uneven
implementation of the CSS specifications, but the outcome for conforming
UAs seems clear.

It would seem more appropriate to say style sheets "will take precedence"
where supported, or at least "can take precedence" where supported.

Al





>
>Proposal 1) Add to the errata page [3] the following clarification:
>
>   <BLOCKQUOTE>
>     As per checkpoint 11.1, content developers are not required
>     to use W3C language features (from CSS, HTML, or other) that are
>     not supported by user agents. Some checkpoints refer to 
>     to particular features of style sheets or markup languages and 
>     content developers should use those features where possible. 
>     Content developers satify these checkpoints when features
>     are not yet supported. However, since user agent support 
>     for features does change, content developers are responsible 
>     for keeping their pages up-to-date in order to ensure 
>     continued conformance.
>
>     This clarification applies (though not exclusively)
>     to the following checkpoints:
>
>       3.1, 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 3.6, 3.7, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 5.1, 
>       5.2, 5.5., 5.6, 6.4, 9.1, 9.3, 9.4, 9.5, 12.1, 12.4, 
>       and 13.2.
>
>     NOTE for Checkpoint 3.3: 
>       Where possible, content developers should use 
>       CSS style sheet features in addition to HTML 
>       presentation markup.
>   </BLOCKQUOTE>
>
>Proposal 2) Add the above text to the Techniques document as well. 
>   Also add to the Techniques text about how CSS style sheets are 
>   intended to interact with HTML presentation attributes.
>
>Proposal 3) Add the above text to the Guidelines document, e.g., to
>    section on conformance. In short, there is an implicit
>    "until user agents" clause on all checkpoints that refers
>    to unsupported language features.
>
>    I don't think we should publish a new Guidelines document until
>    we have more feedback on other issues.
>    
> - Ian
>
>[1] For CSS1: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1#cascading-order
>[2] For CSS2: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/cascade.html#q12
>[3] http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WAI-WEBCONTENT-ERRATA
>
>-- 
>Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org)   http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
>Tel/Fax:                     +1 212 684-1814
> 
Received on Wednesday, 28 July 1999 18:37:00 GMT

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