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Minutes from 26 June 2000 telecon

From: Wendy A Chisholm <wendy@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:41:59 -0400
Message-Id: <>
To: w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org
Hello all,

It took me a bit longer than usual to post the minutes [4] because I was 
trying to close several of my open action items.  I checked with others and 
cleaned up the list of action items.  There are still several open.

I added test suites to the deliverables in the draft charter [1], added a 
link to the IE Web accessories from existing tools [2], realized that I had 
already added the PICS stuff to the WCAG Errata back in January [3], sent a 
note to WCAG chairs re: joint meetings (will send note to CG after get 

[1] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/erwg-charter.html
[2] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/existingtools.html
[3] http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WAI-WEBCONTENT-ERRATA
[4] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/IG/minutes/20000626.html

26 June 2000 Telecon

Summary of action items and resolutions

Action WC: dig up references for writing comprehension.
Action WC: send eyetracking tool info to list.
Resolved: we can suggest that a tool should count the number of options in 
a list, etc. and offer a threshold for length. Not all tools need to do 
this, and we don't have consensus on the lengths to specify.
Action LK: get reference of book re: info of seizures and flicker.
Resolved: Next meeting is July 3, those who can make it will.
Resolved: no meeting July 10, since meeting with AU on the 11th.
Resolved: We will aim to publish another public working draft of AERT by 
the end of July (aiming for the week of July 24).

Open action items from 12 June telecon
Action DB: Forward info about the FrontPage Accessibility Wizard to ER. Get 
more info.
Action: everyone to comment on the charter before next meeting.
Action WC: propose to CG that ER meets with AU, UA, and WCAG on a monthly 
rotation such that ER has one joint meeting per month and 3 solo meetings. 
Progress: Sent note to WCAG WG chairs first.
Action WC, CR, MC, BM think more about how to save state information during 
an evaluation session. Put on the agenda for the 17 July meeting.

Open action items from the AU/ER face2face
Action:MC propose definitions of blocks
Action:CMN ask the internationalization interest group about readability 
indicies in other languages, e.g. Fog Index or style/grammar checkers.
Action:GR ask people who do mathematics on the web to find out combinations 
of elements that would trigger that this is a math equation or logic 
Action:DD continue exploring OCR field that can do anything to recognize 
that there is text.
Action:WC add HTML MAP technique for grouping links to AERT.
Action:CS ask the necessary folks at Microsoft if the plug-ins could be 
made available in more obvious space.
Action:MC make the browser support info from bobby available.

Chris Ridpath
Harvey Bingham
William Loughborough
Len Kasday
Brian Matheny
Wendy Chisholm
Dick Brown
Michael Cooper

Gregory Rosmaita

1. Status and report on Action items: Refer to June 12 minutes:
2. We've had some good discussion on 12.3 . Lets see if we can pin down a 
bottom line consensus. Issues include:
In SELECT: use OPTGROUP when count count of OPTIONS exceeds threshold?
In FORM: use FIELDSET when count of elements within form (INPUT, TEXTAREA, 
SELECT, BUTTON, OBJECT ) exceeds threshold? When two or more radio buttons 
have same name?.
sentences.. when to break up... possible counts include verbs, words, clauses
paragraphs... when to break up...

Open Action Items
WC There are several open items from last week as well as some from the 
f2f. still have several. Michael, Gregory, Cynthia do as well. None of them 
are here today.
/* action items still open are listed in the Summary of action items at the 
beginning of this document. */

CR What is a large block? How big is too big? For a sentence, a list, etc. 
If you have a list with > 10 items is that too big.
WL depend on context.
WC List of states. Don't break that up if ask for area code.
WL But if list original 13 colonies. Author choice.
WC But, we need a trigger number to suggest to the author that chunking 
might need to occur.
LK When you look at a page where it is not obvious how big each list is.
WL What is industry practice? Is it what will fit on one unscrolled screen?
DB Somtimes.
BM That's the IBM idea, everything should fit on one page.
HB We do that with hyperlinks.
LK All of the info plus headings. Headings allow you to scan and can dig in 
deeper where you are drawn to.
WC #'s we have come from numbers of buttons on a phone (10) and chunks of 
info can keep in short-term memory (7 +/- 2). Was there more research this 
was based on? Should we do more?
WL What does this have to do with accessibility?
CR Cognitive and blindness/low vision.
DB Tables of contents? Any page?
WC all kinds of things. perhaps clarify. i'm mostly talking lists.
CR in sentences, no more than 2 verbs.
WC This is a checkpoint of WCAG, thus we can't decide here why to trigger 
(an accessibility issue or not), but how to trigger. Concerned about 
references. Where did CMN's suggestion come from? Want to back these claims up.
LK trigger on any document.
CR problem with checks that appear all the time is that people ignore them.
DB Long sentences is least of our worries, numbers of links on a page is 
more of an issue. We can suggest ways you can count.
WC We need to collect references to resources. Word does grammar checks.
WL Collection be useful to someone making a tool.
Action WC: dig up references for writing comprehension.
WC rant on HFWeb tool for eye-tracking. need for data. use of patterns. 
could use a tool to compare eye-tracking and structure.
Action WC: send eyetracking tool info to list.
LK did they look at the effect of the task? that might have an effect.
WC lots of open issues.
LK consensus that a tool should count number of options in a list, etc. and 
offer a threshold for these things?
Resolved: we can suggest that a tool should count the number of options in 
a list, etc. and offer a threshold for length. Not all tools need to do 
this, and we don't have consensus on the lengths to specify.
CR write up the things we are checking for and put in the document. "We are 
checking sentences for length, we are looking at ... "
WC Yes, that's how we've been doing it. Keep the issues inline.
LK Flicker is another one, i've talked with a neurosurgeon who said it was 
more than flicker rater, but size, color, other motion. There is a whole 
text book.
Action LK: get reference of book re: info of seizures and flicker.
WL many of the current presentation "semantics" are based on what's 
fashionable. E.g. McDonald's painting restaurants a certain color to 
stimulate hunger. Last year's fashionable is this year's horror.

Next meeting
July 3 - those of us who can, will.
No meeting on July 10, since meet with AU on the 11th.
Aim to publish another public draft in July, probably week of July 24.

$Date: 2000/06/26 16:16:49 $ Wendy Chisholm

wendy a chisholm
world wide web consortium
web accessibility initiative
madison, wi usa
tel: +1 608 663 6346
Received on Monday, 26 June 2000 12:40:29 UTC

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