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Minutes from 21 August 2000 telecon

From: Wendy A Chisholm <wendy@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:28:53 -0400
Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000821112720.0524ab20@localhost>
To: w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org
Available at: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/IG/2000/08/21-minutes.html

21 August 2000 ER Telecon

Summary of action items and resolutions
Resolved: You can not modify W3C icons but may use them along side a
     logo of your design.
Action WC: ask wai domain about PF and ER meeting and what to do about
     some issues that might be member private.
Resolved: Thursday and Friday before XML 2000 is preferred (rather than
     Saturday, although Saturday is possible depending on what PF wants to
   do).
Action LK: add notes to draft to discuss :before and :after
     pseudo-elements to insert content. Then send on to WCAG and PF, also send
     heads-up to UA.
Open: We need a scribe for the 28 August meeting.
Resolved: No meeting on 4 September, meet with UA on 5 September.

Participants
Brian Matheny
Len Kasday
Wendy Chisholm
Dick Brown
Chris Ridpath
Harvey Bingham

Using the W3C icon
CR There was a discussion a while ago, about using W3C icons.
LK Since it deals with branding can not modify the W3C icons.
CR You can not have the two icons together as one.
LK Right. If they are on the same page that's fine, but can't join
them.
Resolved: You can not modify W3C icons but may use them along side a logo
of your design.

Face 2 face
WC Need exact date.  PF would like to piggyback and prefer before XML 2000.
LK How long?
WC 1 day for us, 1/2 day with PF?
LK What about confidentiality issues?
WC Who does not have member access?
BM Does not although CAST has.
WC We can just avoid talking about member private issues.
Action WC: ask wai domain about PF and ER meeting and what to do about some
issues that might be member private.
LK Do we sit in on their meeting or they sit in on ours?
/* XML 2000 is 3-8.  Sunday through Friday. preconference tutorials are 3
& 4.  */
Resolved: Thursday and Friday before XML 2000 is preferred (rather than
Saturday, although Saturday is possible depending on what PF wants to do).

Discuss use of class
Len's notes from 18
August 2000.
LK Some pages already have link to TOC.  This would give the functionality
"automatically."  "title" as new attribute in CSS.
HB Could something that is in CSS be used?
LK Not sure.
HB Hate to add something new that the processors don't recognize.
LK You can insert text into the text flow.  If you use something that puts
in the prefix that would make it invisible.
WC Could have 2 style sheets.
LK Or an extra style sheet that inserts the info so as not to duplicate the
main style sheet. The user agent would have the ability to search on these
inserted strings.  Since they are inserted and visible, user agents that
haven't implemented would show it.  Then have JAWS set them up.
WC How will the cascade work if you define the same class twice? Will they
unite or will one override the other?
LK So 2 questions: what does CSS spec say, what do browsers actually
do?
/* WC reads through CSS 1 spec
looking for info for defining classes in multiple sheets */
WC Could use ID and class?
HB Don't want to use ID.  Have the info in the doc itself or separate style
sheet.
LK You have a choice. Link to it or include in header.
WC What about the use of namespaces as suggested by Dan and Charles in
their discussion?  Looking for something that works today? Thoughts?
LK Didn't think about it much. How would it work?
WC Each class would have an associated class that would have info about
it.
LK So RDF creates the link to info.
WC Namespaces is more of an XML convention rather than
/* scribe notes other discussions on this:
Dan's thoughts: Grounding
     link relationships and class names in the Web.
Charles
     and Dan's exchange about classes.
/* Brian has to leave, so discussed latest version of Bobby */
LK WC is there something that fully explains the namespaces proposal?
WC Yes, the discussions from Dan, but I'm not sure if it associates enough
information, it focuses on links.
LK It is just a way of being able to use class names without conflicting
with someone elses's use.  But, it has nothing to do with "title."  Therefore
seems to be an independent issue.  However, we could use the two together.
Not an alternative but a parallel.
Action LK: add notes to draft to discuss :before and :after pseudo-elements
to insert content. Then send on to WCAG and PF, also send heads-up to UA.
LK If there was a "title" property, is there another use in the general
market place that would give it additional value?  Tool tips?
WC Tool tip not a strong case, since lots of developers annoyed with tool
tips and alt already.
HB We could then have a variety of titles for each element.
WC Sounds confusing and complex. How decide which one?  Really need?
Perhaps use it to create a link to the info contained within to simplify the
page more.  E.g. like frames: use the title as a link to the frame and handle
each in their own "window."  Good thing for mobile devices.

Comments on new version of Bobby
HB "http" duplicaiton.
BM Can clean up easily.
HB Webable is in cahoots w/you somehow.
BM It's on our news page.  We've signed an agreement with them. Anytime
someone says, "I don't have the time, can someone make them compliant?"  We
point them to webable.  We can add others to the list.
LK Is this just a list that anyone wants to be added to?
BM We can make arrangements.
LK The question marks are links that don't go anywhere.
BM Went ahead and released. It's a bug.
LK Best just to make them inactive rather than have go nowhere.
BM good suggestion.
LK There are some pages that make the error of not wrapping javascript in
comment, shows up in header.
BM We know about, but low priority.
LK At the top of some pages, you see javascript. When I see that, I think
"Bobby's broken" although I know it is is problem with the page.
BM We haven't had many comments on that.
HB I was surprised when I saw it.
BM Good to know.
LK I will be sending these comments so we don't minute them in detail.
/* scribe relaxes a bit */
LK "user checks are not triggered."
BM Wording should be there.
LK On the page that I reviewed, the first 3 items did not have line
numbers.
BM Not sure what to do about that. If we don't give a specific check, like
"color contrast," we don't give line numbers.
LK So you have 3 categories:
always check
check but not localizable.
local - blink and marquee
BM, yes on 2, gets too overwhelming to present all instances. Adding "make
sure that your alt-text is real" in the list of things to always check.
LK My concern is that you can pass Bobby with "garbage" alt-text, yet you
don't want to clutter up the page.
LK What is "BA"?
BM Bobby approved. Isn't that described?  This is the minimum to
follow.
LK Advanced options could be missed. Search engines put it near the submit
button.
BM Good idea. We could make it more noticeable.
LK Good to impersonate browsers, but can't do it completely accurately
because of browser sniffing javascript tricks.
LK /* several more suggestions for cosmetics. will be sent as e-mail to the
list */
HB HTML 4 check does not specify if it is strict, frame, or
transitional.
BM Not checking DTD but tag list.
HB But tag list is different.  Next release?
BM Couple months hope to clean up some bugs and rerelease.
/* discussion returns to classes */

Upcoming meetings
WC I'm on vacation next week.  We need a scribe for Monday.  Then September
4 is a holiday, but we are scheduled to meet with AU on the 5th anyway.
Open: We need a scribe for the 28 August meeting.
Resolved: No meeting on 4 September, meet with UA on 5 September.

$Date: 2000/08/21 15:23:34 $ Wendy Chisholm
--
wendy a chisholm
world wide web consortium
web accessibility initiative
madison, wi usa
tel: +1 608 663 6346
/--
Received on Monday, 21 August 2000 11:26:18 GMT

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