W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org > April 2000

Re: ERT techniques in UA guidelines?

From: David Poehlman <poehlman@clark.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:14:07 -0400
Message-ID: <38F1C58F.F7E37946@clark.net>
To: Dick Brown <dickb@microsoft.com>
CC: "'w3c-wai-ua@w3.org'" <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>, "'w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org'" <w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org>
not wishing to confuse the issue, it might be possible for a user agent to
provide er through assistive technologies.  I only say this because it would
be sad if two things happen:
1> the only way to get valid code out of something you need is to go to some
other web site after finding that you can't use the site in question in
order to have that site turned around, and
2> even though the code might not be valid, it becomes an access issue
because of data needed for accessability not being passed.

Having said this, I do not feel that it is necessarily an access issue but
have long sought an user agent that would automatically alert the page
author that there are problems with a site code wise and explain the
difficulties that might arise for users and even to suggest repair
strategies and to copy that message to someone who could follow up and also
to the individual who accessed the site for reference.

In some cases, assistives already do some repair work.  This is in some ways
what msaa does.  It might also be something to take up in our rechartering
as we move towards blurring the lines of distinction between html and other
functional specs.

Dick Brown wrote:
> 
> I have an action item from the ER group:
> 
> >> Action DB take issue to UA - should they be considering ERT techniques in
> their guidelines? have they already? include in techniques document?
> 
> I don't have strong feelings that User Agents should employ ERT techniques,
> but when the issue came up we agreed UA folks might be interested in hearing
> about it.
> 
> Gregory has some thoughts below.
> 
> Dick Brown
> Program Manager, Web Accessibility
> Microsoft Corp.
> http://www.microsoft.com/enable/
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   Gregory J. Rosmaita [mailto:unagi69@concentric.net]
> Sent:   Monday, April 03, 2000 11:09 AM
> To:     Evaluation & Repair Interest Group
> Cc:     Jon Gunderson; Ian Jacobs
> Subject:        UA as an ERT tool (was Re: minutes from today's meeting)
> 
> aloha, y'all!
> in the minutes from this morning's telecon, it was stated:
> quote:
> DB you can consider UA's testing tools. in the future they may be doing
> more.
> LK the ideal: techniques part of authoring tools and browsers.  WL can we
> suggest something to UA for UA's to perform validity checks for the user?
> LK i don't think that has been part of the UA philosophy.
> Action DB take issue to UA - should they be considering ERT techniques in
> their guidelines? have they already? include in techniques document?
> unquote
> the User Agent Working group has consistently taken the stance that User
> Agents are _not_ expected to fix invalid or inaccessible HTML-that
> burden has been placed squarely upon the author's shoulders, and the Web
> Content, Authoring Tool, and ERT documents are all intended to ensure that
> the content that is exposed to the user via a user agent is (a) valid and
> (b) accessible
> that being said, a simple warning, such as that which Lynx issues when it
> encounters invalid HTML
> quote
> Warning! Bad HTML! Use -trace to diagnose
> unquote
> 
> would be a beneficial feature for a User Agent, but as far as expecting a
> user agent to perform repairs or even an analysis of the page, isn't
> something that the User Agent Guidelines currently address, nor is it
> something that the WG expects as part of the functionality of a user agent
> qua user agent...
> a user agent that also functions as an editing tool, such as Amaya, however,
> would be required to perform evaluation and repair, but only in editing
> mode...
> finally, Lynx can-by using the -trace command line switch-be used as
> a diagnostic tool-for more info, consult:
> http://www.slcc.edu/lynx/release2-8-2/lynx2-8-2/lynx_help/Lynx_users_guide.h
> tml
> gregory.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ACCOUNTABILITY, n.  The mother of caution.
> * Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gregory J. Rosmaita      <unagi69@concentric.net>
> Camera Obscura           <http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html>
> VICUG NYC                <http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/vicug/>
> Read 'Em & Speak         <http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/books/>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------

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Received on Monday, 10 April 2000 08:14:19 GMT

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