Re: Technique 4.1.A (Changes In Language)

Gregory,

Yes, the SPAN element will do the job nicely. Thanks for letting me know.

Chris

P.S. Sorry for the long delay in getting back to you but I was away last
week.


----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <unagi69@concentric.net>
To: Chris Ridpath <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>
Cc: Evaluation & Repair Interest Group <w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Technique 4.1.A (Changes In Language)


> Chris asked:
> >An author can identify changes in language for an entire paragraph or DIV
> >but how can they identify language changes for a word or phrase within a
> >paragraph or DIV?
>
> aloha, chris!
>
> yes, there is a very simple way to do this -- use the SPAN element and the
LANG
> attribute...
>
> if, for example, i were to encode a portion of Daniel's response to you,
i'd
> mark it up thus, whether or not the natural language definition for the
page
> was declared in the HTML element using the LANG attribute:
>
> --- begin example
> <p>Whilst Daniel wrote, <Q>No, <span lang="fr">&ccedil;a n'est pas
> possible.</span></Q>, I say, <Q lang="fr">au contraire, mon ami!</Q></p>
> --- end example
>
> note that i used the Q element to demarcate my response as French, but
that i
> used the SPAN element to demarcate the French portion of his response, as
he
> used the English form of "no" (plus, i was trying to prove a point!)
>
> i use the SPAN element to demarcate the latinisms that litter my personal
site,
>
> --- begin second example
> <p class="banner">Welcome to <span lang="la">Camera Obscura</span>, the
womb
> without a view...</p>
> --- end second example
>
> as well as when using the occasional foreign phrases or terms in the text
of a
> document
>
> --- begin third example
> Thus, Jimmy Carter learned the importance of practicing <span
> lang="de">realpolitik</span>, without actually appearing to have
compromised
> his oft-articulated principled stance.
> --- end third example
>
> unfortunately, on-the-fly translation services ignore the LANG
declarations
> contained in SPAN elements, but, then again, they're not particularly
strong on
> recognizing the LANG attribute in any element...
>
> Chris also observed:
> quote
> FONT has a LANG attribute but it's not really appropriate.
> unquote
>
> no, it is not, but the use of SPAN to demarcate that the word or phrase it
> contains is in another language (even if there is no LANG declaration in
the
> HTML element) is valid HTML...
>
> moreover, use of
>         <SPAN LANG=""> </SPAN>
> is an authoring strategy that can be employed when one uses shared unicode
> characters -- such as the ideograms that are shared by Chinese, Japanese,
and
> Korean, and which would otherwise be indistinguishable to a user agent --
to
> denote in which linguistic sense they are being used....
>
> as for Chris' last question:
> quote
> Does the author need to identify language changes for a word or phrase?
> unquote
>
> i would say, most definitely yes, as it is one way for an on-the-fly
> translation program to leave the foreign word or phrase intact (or to
apply a
> different translational rule base to it) and it is one way to demarcate
how one
> is using a Unicode character slash glyph slash ideogram that is used by
> multiple languages, but which has a distinct meaning in each...
>
> as for my justification for pushing for the use of SPAN, please refer to
the
> HTML4 Rec, in particular, the table of attributes
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/index/attributes.html>
> which states that it is permissible to use the LANG attribute in all
elements
> but APPLET, BASE, BASEFONT, BR, FRAME, FRAMESET, HR, IFRAME, PARAM, and
SCRIPT;
> and the definition of the LANG attribute, located at:
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html4/struct/dirlang.html#adef-lang>
>
> gregory.
>
> PS: hope this doesn't reach you too late, as i've just gotten back online
after
> a four-and-a-half day hiatus
> --------------------------------------------------------
> He that lives on Hope, dies farting
>      -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1763
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Gregory J. Rosmaita <unagi69@concentric.net>
>    WebMaster and Minister of Propaganda, VICUG NYC
>         <http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/vicug/index.html>
> --------------------------------------------------------