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Re: Guideline 1 in The evaluation techniques document

From: Chris Ridpath <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:02:32 -0400
Message-ID: <008b01bebcc0$41d1be00$b040968e@wilddog.ic.utoronto.ca>
To: <w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org>
Bruce,

We are trying to stay in sync with the WAI guidelines so to follow
http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/#spacer-images:

ALT="   " (1 or  more spaces) is NOT allowed.
ALT="" (NULL) IS allowed for spacer images.

The WAI techniques also suggest that the ALT text for spacer images be
"spacer". I like this better than the NULL text. I propose that I modify
technique 1.1.A so that NULL ALT text is suspicious and if found, the user
is prompted with: "ALT text for this image is NULL. If the image is used for
spacing use 'spacer' as the ALT text."

>I disagree (rather vigorously) with the suggested text for bullets and
>horizontal rules.  ALT (alternate) should replace function and not form.
>
>* 2. If the width of the image and the height of the image are both less
>than 20 pixels, suggested text should be "bullet".
>
>Suggested text should be "-" or "." or "*" or "+"!
>
>* 3. If the height of the image is less than 20 pixels and the width of the
>image is greater than 150 pixels, suggested text should be "horizontal
>rule".
>
>Suggested text should be "----"!
>
That sounds fine to me. It makes it more language independant.

>We could recommend that authors include the "TITLE" attribute (which
>should, if included, be "bullet" or "horizontal rule").  It is not clear to
>me that any browsers support the use of TITLE for images though...
>
This may be added complexity for something that is not used. Can we drop
this recomendation?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Bailey <bbailey@clark.net>
To: 'Leonard R. Kasday' <kasday@acm.org>; w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org
<w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org>
Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 11:06 AM
Subject: RE: Guideline 1 in The evaluation techniques document


>This is a great start!  Thanks Len and Chris!
>
>My initial comments on Guideline 1 from URL:
>http://aprompt.snow.utoronto.ca/docs/Implementation.html#Technique1.1.A
>
>> Not allowed - NULL ALT value (ALT="")
>
>I could agree with you.  There have, of course, been numerous arguments
>that "content-free" graphics DON'T exist.  I won't get into this, except to
>(again) point out that ALT="" is really most problematic with the graphic
>is part of a link.
>
>> Allowed - ALT value of 1 or more spaces (ALT=" ")
>
>Both of the above rules are in direct conflict with the Techniques for
>WCAG!  Please check out URL:
>http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/#spacer-images
>
>Which says:
>> If content developers cannot use style sheets and must use invisible or
>transparent images (e.g., with IMG) to lay out images on the page, they
>should specify alt="" for them.
>
>I disagree (rather vigorously) with the suggested text for bullets and
>horizontal rules.  ALT (alternate) should replace function and not form.
>
>* 2. If the width of the image and the height of the image are both less
>than 20 pixels, suggested text should be "bullet".
>
>Suggested text should be "-" or "." or "*" or "+"!
>
>* 3. If the height of the image is less than 20 pixels and the width of the
>image is greater than 150 pixels, suggested text should be "horizontal
>rule".
>
>Suggested text should be "----"!
>
>We could recommend that authors include the "TITLE" attribute (which
>should, if included, be "bullet" or "horizontal rule").  It is not clear to
>me that any browsers support the use of TITLE for images though...
>
>Bruce Bailey
>MSDE DORS
>http://www.dors.state.md.us/
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Leonard R. Kasday [SMTP:kasday@acm.org]
>Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 5:45 PM
>To: w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org
>Subject: Guideline 1 in The evaluation techniques document
>
>This is to anchor a thread for discussing guideline 1 in the Evaluation
>Techniques document that Chris is Editing.
>
>The document is at
>
>http://aprompt.snow.utoronto.ca/docs/Implementation.html
>
>What do people think of the items under Guideline 1?
>
>Len
>-------
>Leonard R. Kasday, Ph.D.
>Universal Design Engineer, Institute on Disabilities/UAP, and
>Adjunct Professor, Electrical Engineering
>Temple University
>
>Ritter Hall Annex, Room 423, Philadelphia, PA 19122
>kasday@acm.org
>(215} 204-2247 (voice)
>(800) 750-7428 (TTY)
Received on Tuesday, 22 June 1999 11:09:02 GMT

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