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Re: Cognitive Disabilities

From: Jonathan Chetwynd <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 06:57:17 +0100
Cc: w3c-wai-eo@w3.org
To: saylordj@WellsFargo.COM
Message-Id: <91858F68-9263-11D7-AD81-0003939B5AD0@btinternet.com>

Doyle,

Should we invest in a couple of pairs of eyetops?
http://www.eyetop.net not the most accessible site, with javascript 
disabled you get nothing
rave review in yesterday's UK Guardian: 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,3605,965531,00.html

Jonathan


On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 05:57  pm, saylordj@WellsFargo.COM wrote:

> Hello Jonathan,
> Well I'm strongly in agreement that we need to consider images in new 
> ways.
>
> You write,
> Sadly peepo is very nearly a lone voice in the area of providing a W3C
> accessible virtual space, even though in a very limited sense. However 
> there
> are many excellent VRML, flash and other attempts.
> Accessible SVG is also an extremely rare commodity :-(
> to resolve the red bus problem will also require excellent and
> transparent authoring tools.
>
> ...
>
> People with SLD simply don't generalise or abstract in the
> way described, one might go so far as to say that this is one
> definition of a LD. Naturally if we could find an abstract pointer the
> issue would be resolved, but we can't. So this leads to much confusion,
> little of which is resolved by text based discussion.
>
> Doyle,
> This remark reminds me that with visual dyslexia some people can have a
> great deal of trouble with seeing depth in the landscape.  So the
> integrative part of seeing 'wholeness' is a difficulty for them.
>
> Jonathan,
> It would be great if you could illustrate some of your discussion.
>
> Doyle,
> I shot a video of walking on a hillside with a dyslexic person.  They 
> had
> trouble with navigating the hillside compared to me, and had to stare 
> at the
> ground as we walked.  I think this gives us a variety of entry points 
> to
> consider accessibility and imagery.
>
> If we constructed something on line one could carry a laptop into the 
> fields
> where a disabled person might go for a walk and make that usable for 
> the
> dyslexic person outdoors.
>
> I'll describe what I think are important features of images used in 
> the real
> world.  We need to do the equivalent of googling the frames of images 
> so we
> can pull up a relevant section of images when needed while walking.  
> That
> also requires some degree of not just geographic notation that 
> identifies a
> spot, but also orientation of the body in space.
>
> One can project a movie onto the landscape, but in many ways putting a 
> movie
> directly on top of the world masks what is in the world.  So I would 
> prefer
> to have standard means of attaching a movie to the landscape to the 
> side of
> what I am looking at.  Or to be able to see through an image into the 
> real
> landscape so that the ambiguity between landscape and image are not
> confusing me.
>
> Another way I could illustrate this would be to take a blind from birth
> person who hasn't learned certain visual orientations in the world and 
> I
> would put the blind person into a parking lot (a common trial for blind
> people trying to navigate in the world, but a learning disabled person 
> faces
> similar problems) and I would make websites for them to navigate
> interactively in the parking lot.  What I am trying to learn there is 
> how a
> blind person learns the landscape without experience seeing 
> landscapes.  And
> how that would translate into using a image based website that could be
> accessible in that sort of way.
>
> Another way I would consider making illustrations is with eye tracking
> devices that can give a better sense of attention structure that some
> individual brings to a given set of data.  When one is in the world 
> with for
> example some form of attention deficit, that the imagery is not enough 
> but
> how can that imagery be used by the person.
>
> So I think there are several areas to explore this way.
>
> 1. Linking the imagery to a specific space,
>
> 2. Addressing the imagery ambiguity between the image and real space.
>
> 3. Finding the imagery when needed in real time.
>
> 4. Customizing imagery for the attention structure of a given person.
>
> All of this could be put on line as a starting place for doing further 
> work.
> Doyle
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Doyle Saylor
> Business Systems Consultant
> Intranet Hosting Services
> Wells Fargo Services Corporation
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Chetwynd [mailto:j.chetwynd@btinternet.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 2:32 AM
> To: saylordj@WellsFargo.COM
> Cc: w3c-wai-eo@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Cognitive Disabilities
>
> Doyle,
>
> whilst this snippet* is still text it has the additional benefit that
> it is rendered as a specific representation that maybe tested.
> It would be great if you could illustrate some of your discussion.
>
> Doyle wrote:
> We don't want an icon in my view to look like an object we want an icon
> to
> stick to a sparrow in such a way that it touches all birds and we know
> that.
> That is what written words do.  They stick to an object they don't
> resemble
> the object.  That resolves what you referred to in the example of the
> red
> bus and green bus, is the connectedness issue between expressions such
> that
> the green and red refer to the same bus.
>
> Unfortunately this is the nub of the issue, and it is far from
> resolution. People with SLD simply don't generalise or abstract in the
> way described, one might go so far as to say that this is one
> definition of a LD. Naturally if we could find an abstract pointer the
> issue would be resolved, but we can't. So this leads to much confusion,
> little of which is resolved by text based discussion.
>
> Doyle wrote: We want to build in a connection process.
>
> Reality fortunately has many useful pointers, loo signs for instance.
> However these are currently missing in virtuality, and so for the
> present it is necessary to augment virtuality, before it will help
> augment reality, the HUD has to highlight the pylon before the pilot
> can avoid it.
>
> Sadly peepo is very nearly a lone voice in the area of providing a W3C
> accessible virtual space, even though in a very limited sense.
> However there are many excellent VRML, flash and other attempts.
> Accessible SVG is also an extremely rare commodity :-(
> to resolve the red bus problem will also require excellent and
> transparent authoring tools.
>
> Perhaps we can use your expertise to create some other useful visual
> examples with SVG.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> *below, please not I've had problems rotating as well as translating,
> if anyone has a better one thanks:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
> <!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 20001102//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/CR-SVG-20001102/DTD/svg-20001102.dtd">
> <svg>
> <title>circleanimation.svg</title>
>                 <circle id="circle2"
> style="stroke-width:5;stroke:blue;fill:none" cx="60" cy="60" r="60">
>      <animate attributeName="cx" values="0;1400" dur="3s"
>               repeatCount="indefinite"
>               onrepeat="advance(evt)"/>
>              </circle>
> </svg>
>
Received on Friday, 30 May 2003 01:53:52 GMT

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