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Re: More comments on course

From: Chuck Letourneau <cpl@starlingweb.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:47:52 -0500
Message-Id: <4.1.19991129130709.00937b10@host.igs.net>
Message-Id: <4.1.19991129130709.00937b10@host.igs.net>
To: Harvey Bingham <hbingham@acm.org>
Cc: w3c-wai-eo@w3.org
Harvey... thanks for your detailed comments on the WCAG Curriculum slides.
My comments and actions follow each of your points.

At 27/11/99 01:17 AM , you wrote:
>Example 5.2  sam45-0.htm
>     The reference to "sixth" line is obtuse. Does the first row have 1, 2,
>     or 3 lines?
>     Is TRIP,                    line 1,
>     Meals Room Trans. Total     line 2,
>     date                        line 3
>
>     I suggest your point refers to the first Subtotal line.

CPL:: I agree... the description was somewhat obtuse.  Please note I was
NOT trying to describe the problem of older screen-readers not reading
wrapped text in cells, but was trying to explain the difficulty of not
being able to easily associate headers in large tables. I replaced the
description with the following:
Example: A travel expenses worksheet.  While the following data table
appears simple enough visually, it would be difficult to understand if read
by some of today's screen-readers.  A good way to approximate what some
screen-reader users will hear is to hold a ruler to the table, and read
straight across the screen. Then, move the ruler down until the next line
of characters is displayed.  Read straight across.  After a while, pick a
data cell at random and, without looking at the column or row title, try
and remember what headers describe that data point.   The larger and more
complex the table, the harder it would be to remember the row and column
relationships."

>
>Example 9.3  first sentence: Omit "that "

CPL:: Done.

>
>Example 9.5  end suggestion that accesskeys n and p work for next and
>    prior slide. Could not get to work in IE5 (I find nothing in IE5
>    help about "accesskeys".

CPL:: As I mentioned in a previous note, IE5 does support accesskey, but
not, in my opinion, as well as IE4 did.  Regardless, I substantially
reworded the example 9.5 to make it (I hope) less confusing.  

>
>Example 10.1   sam77-0.htm  Wish attribute values in examples were quoted,
>     good practice for XML. In that case: TARGET="_blank"   On that example,
>     why have the link twice:
>         The Wonderful World of Sponge
>     Your admonishment
>         "tell the user beforehand that something like that will happen."
>     could well be on the first.
>         ... (Please note: this link will open the page in a new browser
>         window.)

CPL:: I added the quotation marks to the example.  As to why I had the
example twice: it was a poorly realized construct to show the wrong way,
followed by the correct way, when indeed, only the correct way was
necessary.  In previous versions of the curriculum, I had many more of this
kind of example, and have gotten rid of most of them.  This one slipped by.
 It is now fixed.

>
>Checkpoints chk11-0.htm
>     Add commas after  Until user agents ..., ...
>     10.1  windows, do ,,,
>     10.3  correctly, provide ...
>     10.4  correctly, include
>     10.5  distinctly, include ...
>           I personally believe that 10.5 should not need that qualification.
>           That separation by non link, printable characters (surrounded
>           by spaces) is good visual separation that also provides aural
>           separation.
>
CPL:: Done.  As to 10.5: when the Checkpoint is officially changed (in WCAG
V2.0 or in the Errata), I will make the change here.  I have no right to do
otherwise.

>
>Example 10.4  sam81-0.htm   Display is garbled with overprinting using
>     IE5 to display code, when the window width is too narrow! Yuk.
>     (effect of the <pre>...</pre>)

CPL::   Wasn't a <pre>...</pre> problem.  It was a CSS problem.  I think I
have fixed it.  Try it an let me know.

>
>Example 12.2  sam88-0.htm
>     Deprecated Presentational Elements first bullet
>     ...and alignment attributes in any element: valign and align
>     attribute values are not deprecated within tables, only align is
>     deprecated for the overall placement of the table on a page, and
>     of the caption if any.

CPL:: the bullet text now reads"
Block alignment: CENTER
and alignment attributes in most elements:  align, valign, clear, nowrap 
Note: within tables, only align is deprecated for the overall placement of
the table on a page, and of the caption if any.


>
>Example 13.6 sam104.0.htm
>     The boxed set of "navigation links" that is skipped over, are not
>     actually links that do as their content image or alt text on
>     the *.gif suggest.

CPL:: They are now active links that don't go anywhere (or more correctly,
that link back to the NAV bar).  I added a note saying that the nav bar is
really not what it seems.
>

>Example 13.6, continued   sam106-0.htm
>     "The following code uses DIV ..."
>     what following code?

CPL:: Thanks for catching that one!  Rather than attempt an example, I
reworded the slide thusly:
"In HTML,  the DIV, and FRAME elements could also be used to group links.
Since these HTML 4.0 elements can take the "id" and "class" attributes, the
grouping could be identified using one or more of those attributes with a
descriptive name.  However, unless a standard method of grouping and
identifying links is agreed upon, then User Agents will have difficulty
catching and rendering that information."

>
>Example 13.7. continued   sam109-.htm
>     References without link to search site like Yahoo.
>     I personally find that kind of structure more noise than I am
>     comfortable with. I usually go directly to a search engine.

CPL:: I added the link to Yahoo.  

>
>Example 13.9  sam111-0.htm
>     first bullet. I do not find that discussion on metadata there
>     particularly germaine.
>     It is only at the end of the second page that the relevance
>     becomes evident. Perhaps split that into two examples, so this
>     reference could be to that second part.
>
Thanks for catching this too!  When I split 13.2 into two slides in the
last major revision, I forgot to change the link from 13.9 to point to the
actual example noted.  I used the simplest method possible to try and
address the confusion you mention, by targeting the link to the specific
paragraph in sam99-0.htm

Thanks for your detailed comments.  Every little bit helps!

Regards,
Chuck 
----
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Received on Monday, 29 November 1999 16:48:48 GMT

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