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Brainstorming ideas for Full-Partial ATAG2 Conformance Types

From: Richards, Jan <jrichards@ocad.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 21:28:21 +0000
To: "w3c-wai-au@w3.org" <w3c-wai-au@w3.org>
Message-ID: <0B1EB1C972BCB740B522ACBCD5F48DEB0399AFB9@ocadmail-maildb.ocad.ca>
Previous...

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2011OctDec/0069.html
Authoring System Conformance (A, AA, AAA)
"Partial" Component-Only Conformance (A, AA, AAA)

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2011OctDec/0071.html 
"Full" ATAG 2.0 Conformance (No-Level, A, AA, AAA)
"Partial" Component-Only Conformance (No-Level, A, AA, AAA)

On the Call...

Authoring System Conformance
Authoring Tool Conformance

Full System Conformance
Sub-System Conformance

Unassisted Conformance
Assisted Conformance


After the Call....
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2011OctDec/0082.html
1. "Full" ATAG 2.0 Conformance (A, AA, or AAA)
2. "Partial" Conformance (No-Level, A, AA, AAA)



Other ideas welcome!

Cheers,
Jan







> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richards, Jan [mailto:jrichards@ocad.ca]
> Sent: November 14, 2011 4:04 PM
> To: w3c-wai-au@w3.org
> Subject: Minutes from AUWG Teleconference on 14 Nov 2011 3:00pm-4:00pm
> ET (TODAY)
> 
> Minutes:
> http://www.w3.org/2011/11/14-au-minutes.html
> 
> Full text:
> WAI AU
> 14 Nov 2011
> 
> Agenda
> 
> See also: IRC log
> Attendees
> 
> Present
>     Jeanne, +1.571.765.aaaa, Greg, Jan, Jutta, Alex, AlastairC, Cherie,
> Tim_Boland, +1.561.582.aabb, Sueann
> Regrets
> Chair
>     Jutta Treviranus
> Scribe
>     AlastairC
> 
> Contents
> 
>     Topics
>         1. Proposed conformance types:
>     Summary of Action Items
> 
> 1. Proposed conformance types:
> 
> <Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-
> au/2011OctDec/0071.html
> 
> <Jan> JT: Note that not just full disclosure...also progress towards
> confromance
> 
> Jan: Agree that 'authoring tool' is problematic, but that is the name
> of the guidelines! We've defined it to be the whole thing.
> ... To change, we'd have to rename it to something bigger than the
> whole document.
> 
> AL: Perhaps need a term like authoring environent? Something along
> those lines.
> 
> <Jan> ATAG 2.0 System Conformance or
> 
> <jeanne> +1 to the name change
> 
> AL: 2 types: envinroment type, other is tool type.
> 
> <Jan> ATAG 2.0 Environmet Conformance
> 
> Jutta: other perspectives. Could have tool that only authors certain
> type of content. That tool could be seen as full conformance.
> 
> AL: Might need a matrix to define full conformance from a whole bunch
> of things.
> ... one axis: criteria, second axis: technologies.
> 
> Jan: Easier to explain that a simple tool can be a system?
> ... Note the astriks, noting the claim caveat.
> 
> Jutta, at the moment, we have full and partial, but the distinction is
> based on the accessible authoring features, but that isn't the wording
> the first one.
> 
> Jan: 1st one is end-to-end performance
> ... I see, it is 'accessible content' rather than 'web content'.
> 
> <Jan> - this conformance option *can* be chosen for authoring tools*
> that require no additional components to meet ATAG 2.0.
> 
> <Jan> - this conformance option *can* be chosen for authoring tools*
> that require no additional tools to meet ATAG 2.0.
> 
> Jeanne: Concerned with tools that only aspire to be focused. Having
> some 'full' some 'partial', doesn't sound great, sets up a heirarchy.
> 
> Jan: Partial in WCAG?
> 
> AL: Best idea we could come up with at the time, it was created mostly
> because system aggregators and user-gen content causes problems.
> 
> Jan: So someone could make a really great checker tool, but a problem
> elsewhere could mess it up.
> ... Full level, just failed a couple of criteria,
> 
> AC: How can you make a 'full' claim but not meet certain criteria,
> wouldn't that be a partial claim.
> 
> Jan: Sueann's example from VPAT: Say a tool is v accessible, but can't
> be installed accessibly.
> ... This text is going into the conformance levels area of the doc.
> 
> AL: Another site meets WCAG 2.0 A, plus a few AA but not enough to
> claim double A. They should be able to mark that down.
> ... Never really A/AA/AAA, there are in-betweens.
> 
> AC: Then why have partial?
> 
> Jan: Partial - the "no"s are ignored in terms of conformance.
> 
> Greg: Starting to segment tools by categories?
> ... Two tier conformance, you've got tool makers who can, but then
> you've got authors who can glue together different tools.
> ... Create conformance claim as an author.
> 
> AL: Authors don't have to make conformance claims.
> 
> J: Wordpress is an example, will want to claim, but don't include a
> checking and repair tool.
> 
> AL: That's why we get rid of "partial" and use component.
> 
> Jutta: Notion of ingrator/aggregator could pull tools together, how
> would they construct such a claim?
> 
> Jan: VPATs work by flowing through, they get it from developer, same
> thing here.
> 
> AC: Having no-level for Full conformance is ok if you have "component"
> rather than "partial" conformance as the other level.
> 
> <Jan> WHat about Full System Conformance vs. Sub-System Conformance?
> 
> Jeanne: Need to be sensitive to people with tools that are missing
> small parts of ATAG.
> 
> AL: We wouldn't claim for a system, we'd claim for specific tools.
> ... Why system vs sub? Why not system vs tools.
> 
> Jan: Tools can be whole or a small part.
> 
> J: 1 could be claimed by a very small tool, but because it meets all
> the requirements it can claim full conformance.
> ... 2 could be claimed by a large tool that covers every type of
> content, but doesn't try to have checking and repair.
> ... Pointing to size/complexity, rather than what accessible
> conformance it makes.
> 
> AL: Big systems wouldn't try for 1, just 2.
> 
> J: Worried that size of the tool / system as opposed to the degree to
> which it takes responsibility for accessible authoring practices.
> 
> AL: Most tools out there don't intend to do everything.
> 
> J: The largest thing is not always the thing that chooses to do all the
> accessibility features.
> ... 1. do it all yourself, where 'all' is differently defined. All may
> not be a lot.
> ... Suggesting 1 is 'system' and 2 'tool' conformance. But that implies
> it isn't how much of the accessible authoring practices it involves.
> ... What is really the distinction between 1 & 2, because it isn't
> whether it's a system or a tool.
> 
> AC: What about a workflow based differentiation?
> 
> Jutta: accessible workflow.
> 
> Jan: Let's hash out on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Jan
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richards, Jan
> > Sent: November 14, 2011 11:21 AM
> > To: w3c-wai-au@w3.org
> > Subject: AUWG Teleconference on 14 Nov 2011 3:00pm-4:00pm ET (TODAY)
> >
> > here will be an AUWG teleconference on Monday 14 November 2011 at
> 3:00
> > pm - 4:00 pm ET:
> >
> > Call: (617) 761-6200 ext. 2894#
> > IRC: server: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #au
> >
> > If people think they will arrive more than 15 minutes late, please
> send
> > me an email beforehand.
> >
> > The dial-in numbers for Zakim are now ONLY:
> > ===========================================
> > +1.617.761.6200       (Boston)
> >
> >
> > Editor Drafts:
> > ==============
> > ATAG:
> > http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-ATAG20-20111028/
> > Implementing ATAG:
> > http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111028/
> > Last Call comment responses:
> > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2011OctDec/0054.html
> >
> >
> > Agenda:
> > ========
> >
> > 1. Proposed conformance types:
> > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2011OctDec/0071.html
> >
> > NOTE: If you feel that substantive changes are required, it would be
> > very helpful to send those  to the list ahead of the meeting.
> >
> >
> > Future meetings:
> > ================
> > Nov 21:
> > Nov 28:
> > Nov 2011: Last Call WD
> > Feb 2012: Candidate Recommendation
> > - this is more speculative, since we are guessing how long we will be
> > in CR
> > June 2012: Proposed Recommendation
> > August 2013: Recommendation
> >
> >
> > (MR) JAN RICHARDS
> > PROJECT MANAGER
> > INCLUSIVE DESIGN RESEARCH CENTRE (IDRC)
> >
> > T 416 977 6000 x3957
> > F 416 977 9844
> > E jrichards@ocad.ca
> >
> > Twitter @OCAD
> > Facebook www.facebook.com/OCADUniversity
> >
> > OCAD UNIVERSITY
> > 100 McCaul Street, Toronto, Canada  M5T 1W1
> > www.ocadu.ca
> >
> 
Received on Monday, 14 November 2011 21:28:44 GMT

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