W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-au@w3.org > January to March 2002

RE: [webwatch] Visa Paralympics accessible site

From: Mike Paciello <paciello@webable.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:49:25 -0500
To: "Al Gilman" <asgilman@iamdigex.net>, "Jutta Treviranus" <jutta.treviranus@utoronto.ca>, <w3c-wai-au@w3.org>
Message-ID: <LPBBLAFOCBGBPOEHHLNGIEDMGEAA.paciello@webable.com>
I'll take a stab at this later...I'm in the middle of two more books and a
thousand other projects. Frankly, we need to focus on simplifying the
explanation. Short, simple, concise statements work.

Mike



>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Al Gilman [mailto:asgilman@iamdigex.net]
>  Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 5:42 PM
>  To: Jutta Treviranus; w3c-wai-au@w3.org
>  Cc: paciello@webable.com
>  Subject: RE: [webwatch] Visa Paralympics accessible site
>
>
>  At 02:22 PM 2002-01-29 , Jutta Treviranus wrote:
>  >I agree as well. Can you propose some additional or alternative
>  >wording for the techniques to reflect the points you are making?
>  >
>
>  I am not sure that this is language that drops straight into the
>  document, but
>  the elevator speech I have queued up on this is roughly as follows:
>
>  <two-liner>
>
>  To know that the ALT text for something is wrong, it usually
>  suffices to notice
>  that the ALT attribute has not been declared at all.  To know
>  that the ALT text
>  is right, it takes reviewing it in a view that communicates the flow of a
>  speech rendering as it passes through the text to be inserted.
>  In context, and
>  without layout artifacts which distract from the flow of how it
>  will be read by
>  the screen reader.
>
>  </two-liner>
>
>  <more flabby blather>
>
>  The trick is to get an author, most likely a full-vision
>  individual with highly
>  developed visual focus for web design, to grok the verbal flow
>  that one would
>  get in speech rendering.  Usually all this takes is an alternate visual
>  rendering that presents the text in a fashion that reflects the
>  reading flow.
>  The Lynx layout, or the text view in Home Page Reader are conspicuous
>  examples.  <unverified>It is probably not necessary that people
>  shut their eyes
>  or hear the text read to get the point.</unverified>  Common
>  blunders include:
>  inserting an ALT that creates a stammer, which reproduces text
>  that will appear
>  just before or after the ALT anyway; and saying 'link' as the
>  first word in the
>  ALT text of an image link.  The latter is not good because the
>  screen reader
>  will know that a link is a link from the markup and will tell
>  the user that by
>  saying 'link' just before reading the link text.
>
>  </more flabby blather>
>
>  Possible techniques:
>
>  a) [If editing in a three-panel display of synchronized views:
>  outline view
>  down left column, full graphical formatted view in upper right pane,
>  Fixed-text-size 'text view' in lower right.]
>  Pop the author to the text view to cue them to insert the text
>  in that view.
>
>  b) simplified version of this: popup ALT text capture is not into a bare
>  textEditBox but rather to an insertion point inside a
>  [five-line?] fragment of
>  a text view centered on where the ALT will fall.
>
>  c) emulate TV crawl.  Crawl (b) onto the screen in a one-line
>  full-width layout
>  rectangle and pause for entry when the ALT-insertion point gets front and
>  center.
>
>  Possible document includes:
>
>  Home Page Reader screen shot.  Amaya screen shot.
>
>  Actually, I think that it takes a tightly coupled one-two punch:
>   "How to write
>  good ALT text" stuff fit for authors and "How to help authors
>  write good ALT
>  text" extensions of the discussion for tool builders.  The latter to be
>  consumed in the company of the former.  Simply having a hyperlink,
>  unfortunately doesn't suffice to get people to read something else.
>
>  Whoever writes this up should please revisit Alan Flavell's ALT
>  text page, and
>  mine, too which is at
>
>   affective messaging and effective mode-crossing (desc example)
>   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-tech-comments/2001Aug/0001.html
>
>  And probably the section of Mike's book that deals with this.
>
>  Al
>
>
>  >Jutta
>  >
>  >>At 08:48 AM 2002-01-29 , Mike Paciello wrote:
>  >>>I have noticed that these dual links with ALT are a popular
>  design trend. I
>  >>>believe it's based on the misunderstanding of ALT text use.
>  "We" have been
>  >>>preaching the need for ALT text on images for so long, that
>  designers are
>  >>>including it on every instance and forgetting usability.
>  >>>
>  >>>I think we need to do a better job of educating the
>  designers. Simple as
>  >>>that.
>  >>>
>  >>
>  >>Yes, but why is it that designers have to be repeatedly told [this]?
>  >>
>  >>It is a megatrend and the bane of my existence.
>  >>
>  >>They are following a context-free rule that only takes linear
>  thinking.  Here
>  >>is an IMG, supply an ALT.  All they did was to follow that rule
>  >>without looking
>  >>around.  They ignore the context.
>  >>
>  >>The better ALT would consider the context in a linear reading.
>  >>
>  >>But from the work-situation of the visual designer willing to
>  JustDoIt for a
>  >>few rules imposed by the boss, that is a radical step beyone what they
>  >>understand they have to do.
>  >>
>  >>My consulting linguist tells me "in English we are rapidly losing
>  constructive
>  >>morphology."  The ability to have people understand a new word you
>  >>put together
>  >>because you put it together following "the rules."
>  >>
>  >>There is a strong preference in the JustDoIt culture for
>  extreme locality of
>  >>reference; not to have to look around or consider anything but
>  what is dead
>  >>ahead of you.  This is what I mean is a megatrend.  Don't know
>  when or if
>  this
>  >>trend will turn around.
>  >>
>  >>For effective education and outreach, to get the design
>  constraint we wish to
>  >>be effective in the designer's understanding we have to put
>  the form of the
>  >>fluency constraint graphically under their nose.  This can be done
>  >>with Lynx or
>  >>Home Page Reader or you name it.  But the authoring process
>  has to present
>  the
>  >>author with the text content in a geometry which makes the repetition
>  obvious,
>  >>and makes it look like a mistake.  It is not enough to
>  verbalize an abstract
>  >>pattern in their ear.  We need to use all the senses they have
>  and habitually
>  >>respond to, to impress on them the geometry of the problem,
>  that the words
>  >>should flow.
>  >>
>  >>Sadly, the documentation of techniques for authoring tools has
>  lost sight of
>  >>this master principle.
>  >>
>  >>  Techniques for Authoring Tool Accessibility
>  >> 
>  <<http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG10-TECHS/#check-provide-missing-alt>ht
>  tp://www.w3
>  .org/TR/ATAG10-TECHS/#check-provide-missing-alt><http://www.w/>ht
>  tp://www.w
>  >>3.org/TR/ATAG10-TECHS/#check-provide-missing-alt
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>Al
>  >>
>  >>>Mike
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>>  -----Original Message-----
>  >>>>  From: Kelly Ford
>  [<<mailto:kelly@kellford.com%5D>mailto:kelly@kellford.com%5D><mai
>  lto:kelly@
>  kellford.com%5D>mailto:kelly@kellford.com]
>  >>>>  Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 8:35 AM
>  >>>>  To: webwatch@yahoogroups.com
>  >>>>  Subject: Re: [webwatch] Visa Paralympics accessible site
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>  Hi Phil,
>  >>>>
>  >>>>  A couple things jump immediately out at me.  These fall in the
>  >>>>  category of making something really usable in my opinion.  Rather
>  >>>>  not doing them would make the site more usable.
>  >>>>
>  >>>>  1. Several of the links at the beginning of the page use alt text
>  >>>>  phrasing of "this link goes to...".  Just give me the name
>  of the link.
>  >>>>
>  >>>>  2. As you mention there are multiple instances of alt text and
>  >>>>  then a link with the same name.  To me this is where alt=""
>  >>>>  should be used on a graphic that simply duplicates the text of a
>  >>>>  link that is immediately after.
>  >>>>
>  >>>>  Kelly
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>    ----- Original Message -----
>  >>>>    From: Phill Jenkins
>  >>>>    To: webwatch@yahoogroups.com
>  >>>>    Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 9:01 AM
>  >>>>    Subject: [webwatch] Visa Paralympics accessible site
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>    Last week I saw a presentation from VISA about how they are
>  >>>>  sponsoring the
>  >>>>    Paralympics.  They also claim to have made a lot of
>  progress on their
>  >>>>   
>  <<http://www.visaparalympics.com/>http://www.visaparalympics.com/
>  ><http://ww
>  w.visaparalympics.com/>http://www.visaparalympics.com site.
>  >>>>
>  >>>>    I found the redundant use of alt text to be distracting.
>  Using Home
>  Page
>  >>>>    Reader [1] VISA would be able to see & hear just what I mean,
>  >>  >> for example
>  >>>>    Overview Overview.   Also, the main image of a skier with only
>  >>>>  one leg was
>  >>>>    not described.  But, I really liked the used on skip
>  navigation and the
>  >>>>    link at the bottom that jumps back to the top. It appears to meet
>  >>>>    accessibility standards but could be tweaked to make it more
>  >>>>  easy to use.
>  >>>>
>  >>>>    What do others think?
>  >>>>
>  >>>>    Regards,
>  >>>>    Phill
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>> 
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>    To Post a message, send it to:   webwatch@eGroups.com
>  >>>>    To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>  >>>>  webwatch-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>  >>>>
>  >>>>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
>  of Service.
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>  To Post a message, send it to:   webwatch@eGroups.com
>  >>>>  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>  webwatch-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>  >>>>
>  >>>>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>  >><<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
terms/><ht
tp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
>>>Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck
>>>Monitoring Service trial
>>><<http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/nGfwlB/TM>http://us.cli
ck.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/nGfwlB/TM><http://us.click/>http://us.clic
k.
>>yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/nGfwlB/TM
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>>>
>>>To Post a message, send it to:   webwatch@eGroups.com
>>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: webwatch-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>>>
>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>><<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/><ht
tp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>
Received on Tuesday, 29 January 2002 18:50:16 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 21:39:47 UTC