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Re: section 2.5 - charles' proposal and Jan's proposal

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:36:22 -0400 (EDT)
To: Wendy A Chisholm <chisholm@trace.wisc.edu>
cc: w3c-wai-au@w3.org
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9904221523170.20319-100000@tux.w3.org>
In the examples which spring to mind this is already covered. The two
mechanism used for incorporating stuff into web pages are elements like
SCRIPT, which need to be parsed somehow, and commented server-side things. 

In a case such as Cold Fusion, which makes use of CFML, a specialised markup
language, an authoring tool which produces it needs to understand it (2.5.1).

The output of Cold Fusion pages is HTML, and should be HTML 4.0 if the
authoring tools or authors follow WCAG.

In the unlikely event that somebody tries to use an authoring tool which does
not understand Cold Fusion to edit a CFML page the tool will be faced with
the choice of throwing out the CFML markup and trying to create a valid HTML
page, in which case it should ask the author, or leaving it in there and not
being able to validate it. There is not much else a tool can do.

In the case of the scripts used by you and I, and languages like php, the
pages are valid HTML, with all the magic done from inside comments. An
authoring tool should not remove the comments anyway, but the document is
always valid HTML already. (Although in a poorly designed language the
scripts might break down if things are shifted around by someone who doesn't
know what they are doing. Again, it isn't something a tool can reasonably be
expected to address)

Charles McCN

On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Wendy A Chisholm wrote:

  the issue that I was trying to raise with my previous e-mail is if the
  authoring tool modifies invalid or inaccesible markup, server-side
  directives and other "place holders" might be considered invalid or
  inaccessible and therefore removed.  Thus potentially causing a problem for
  authors who are not markup language savvy.  
  --wendy
  
  At 09:59 AM 4/22/99 , you wrote:
  >WC:: "...place-holding elements that are not defined anywhere fit into
  >the picture?"
  >
  >WL: Although this is an important point it is difficult to imagine it
  >being addressed in an authoring tool, it's sort of like the illegitimate
  >ALT="text" problem in that the tool that could recognize that "insert
  >description here" is different from "picture of my dog, Shea" would make
  >us all obsolete.  Trying to force the templates to spot unmodified
  >place-holders is a nice idea but...  E.g., in HotDog when you try to
  >save a templated file without replacing "enter title here" you get a
  >gentle nudge (after all the title of your web site could be "enter title
  >here"!) but of course not all template makers are going to furnish such
  >facilities.
  >
  >
  >-- 
  >Love.
  >            ACCESSIBILITY IS RIGHT - NOT PRIVILEGE
  >http://dicomp.pair.com
  > 
  

--Charles McCathieNevile            mailto:charles@w3.org
phone: +1 617 258 0992   http://www.w3.org/People/Charles
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative    http://www.w3.org/WAI
MIT/LCS  -  545 Technology sq., Cambridge MA, 02139,  USA
Received on Thursday, 22 April 1999 15:36:27 UTC

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