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Minutes telecon 09th May 2003

From: Jeremy Carroll <jjc@hpl.hp.com>
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 13:56:22 +0300
To: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org
Message-Id: <200305101356.22228.jjc@hpl.hp.com>


Minutes 09 May 2003
date: 20030509
RDF Core Telecon
================

Summary:

RESOLUTION SUMMARY
==================
to not accept xmlschema-07
tex-01 accepted as clarification, test case added.
Typed literals option 4 from msg 0086
xmlsch-01 as in 0252 with amendment.
xmlsch-02 addressed by msg 0097.

APPROVED COMMENTS ON OWL
=======================
 jang send comments in 0074 on S+AS.
 bwm Send rdfcore-np-complete rdfcore-bnodes-restriction from 0099
 jang Not send comment on np-completeness
 bwm Send msg 0124 on OWL Ref.

OTHER ACTIONS
=============
 bwm fix issue list resolution for rdfms-literal-is-xml-structure
 jjc Make typed literal changes in concepts.
 jjc Review concepts to make consequential changes concerning typed literals
 path Review semantics to make changes concerning typed literals
 jjc Provide anchor for rdf:XMLLiteral to Pat Hayes
 daveb Change Ntriples to remove language from typed literals
 daveb Review syntax to make changes concerning typed literals
 jang Review all tests to make changes concerning typed literals
 em Review primer to make changes concerning typed literals
 bwm Review issue list and update those affected.
 jjc Inform reagle-0[12] raisers of typed literals decision
 path Tell pfps of change to literals decision
 jjc Inform I18N-WG of literals decision.
 bwm Update status of pfps-08 if necessary
 jjc To send response on xmlsch-01.
 jang Is inverse of test case 0097 true or not?
 jjc Updated concepts in lite of xmlsch-02 decision
 daveb Review syntax and make changes for xmlsch-02.

Agenda:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0076

Transcript: 
http://www.w3.org/2003/05/09-rdfcore-irc


1: scribe: Jeremy Carroll

2: Roll Call
Present: steveP, PatH, PatrickS, jjc, bwm, EMiller, DanC
  GrahamKlyne, JosD, DanBri (joined late)
Regrets: FrankM, MikeDean


3: Review Agenda
Agenda approved.


4: Next telecon 16 May 2003 1000 Boston Time
Last One before WWW 2003
Volunteer Scribe: JanG
(regrets EricM, DanC)



5: Minutes of 02 May 2003 telecon 

See:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0031.html

Approved.


6: Confirm Status of Completed Actions

 2003-03-14#6 gk
review semantics editor

 20030425#5 danc
figure out the cost to WebOnt of accepting timbl-03

see:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0040.html

 20030502#1 bwm
send the comments in 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0002.html as 
comments from RDFCore on OWL Reference LCWD

see:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webont-comments/2003May/0004.html

 20030502#2 jang
send revised OWL S+AS 2.3.2.1 words to the rdfcore list

see:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0074.html

 20030502#3 gk
review 4.1 of AS&S especially the translation to triples table, with an eye on 
implementation.

see:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0045.html

 20030502#4 jang
split s+as comments in 0291 into editorial substantial issues, with issue ids

see:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0074.html

 20030502#5 jjc
explain point about use of (restrictions on use of )blank nodes in OWL DL, 
Lite and propose a comment for OWL

see:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0070.html

 20030502#7 bwm
Remind webont co-chairs about timbl-03 issue

 20030502#8 eric
put timbl-03 issue on the agenda for next SWCG 

see:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-semweb-cg/2003May/0002.html

 20030502#9 bwm
add danc-04 to postponed issues list

see:
  http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfs-fyi

 20030502#14 bwm
allocate a formal comment ID for the rdfs:Schema issue

see:
  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#eikon-01

 20030502#17 jjc
make a proposal to the list to treat XMLLiteral like any other datatype

see:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0016.html


All Approved.


7: RDFCore comments on OWL AS+S

20030502#2 jang  send revised OWL S+AS 2.3.2.1 words to the rdfcore list
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0074.html


Discussed and approved, Connolly abstaining.

ACTION: jang send comments in 0074 on S+AS.
(note ammended below)


20030502#5  jjc  explain point about use of (restrictions on use of )blank
                  nodes in OWL DL, Lite and propose a comment for OWL
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0070.html
follow ups
Brian's 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0099.html
and DanBri's test case
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0121.html

The discussion concerned sending the comments in msg 0099.
Concerning owlsas-rdfcore-bnodes-restrictions there was a discussion
as to whether to s/request/suggest/ or some other weakening.
No such amendment was made.

Approved 0099 comment rdfcore-bnodes-restriction with 
link to foaf use case.

Concerning owlsas-rdfcore-np-complete no-one argued against.
PatrickS proposed an amendment that text from RDF Semantics
[[
Specifications of such syntactically restricted semantic 
extensions MUST include a specification of their syntactic 
conditions which are sufficient to enable software to 
distinguish unambiguously those RDF graphs to which the extended 
semantic conditions apply.
]]

The comment was approved, with no abstentions, or objections.

There was insufficient support for owlsas-rdfcore-rules-completely
in msg 0099.

ACTION: bwm Send rdfcore-np-complete rdfcore-bnodes-restriction from 0099
ACTION: jang Not send comment on np-completeness


Further discussion on msg
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0124.html
Comment owlref-rdfcore-relationship-to-RDF

Discussion concerned 'wild' RDF.
Many for, none against,
Abstaining: JosD, W3C.

Approved: to send msg 0124 on OWL Ref.

ACTION: bwm Send msg 0124 on OWL Ref.


20030502#3  gk  review 4.1 of AS+S especially the translation to triples
                 table, with an eye on implementation.
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0045.html


Discussion but no actions or approved comments.


8: Status on Incoming Last Call Comments
   
Agendum skipped.


9: Issue xmlsch-07 datatype definition

  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#xmlsch-07

Formal proposal to not accept this comment as it has been withdrawn by
the xml schema group:

  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0316.html

Brian proposes, PatH seconds, no opposition.

RESOLVED: to not accept xmlschema-07

10: Issue tex-01
Therefore propose, as was previously agreed and not recorded:

  - classify tex-01 as a clarification
  - add the following note to concepts:
[[
 Note: The case normalization of language tags is part of
 the description of the abstract syntax, and implicitly the abstract
 behaviour of RDF applications. It is not intended to constrain an
 RDF implementation to actually normalize the case. Crucially, the result
 of comparing two language tags should not be sensitive to the case of
 the original input.
]]
 - add the following test cases
[[
  <rdf:Description>
    <eg:prop xml:lang="en-us">a</eg:prop>
  </rdf:Description>

entails

  <rdf:Description>
    <eg:prop xml:lang="EN-us">a</eg:prop>
  </rdf:Description>

entails

  <rdf:Description>
    <eg:prop xml:lang="en-US">a</eg:prop>
  </rdf:Description>
]]


Proposed: jjc, Seconded: PatH, no opposition or abstentions.
RESOLVED: tex-01 accepted as clarification, test case added.


11: Issue timbl-03

(rdf:List type triples)
Discussion, it was agreed that it was better to postpone
for a week.

12: Language tags in typed literals

The discussion meandered somewhat.

We noticed that the issue list is out of date.
ACTION: bwm fix issue list resolution for rdfms-literal-is-xml-structure

This msg contains the four options considered.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0096.html

Of which option 4, which is in:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0086.html
was the favourite.

There was discussion of whether option 4 would require review
from I18N-WG and XML Core.

The following text was quoted from the exclusive XML
 Canonicalization recommendation:

"attributes in the XML namespace, such as xml:lang and xml:space 
are not imported into orphan nodes"

PatrickS proposes option 4 from msg 0086.
ILRT seconds. Jeremy abstaining.

RESOLVED: Typed literals option 4 from msg 0086

ACTION: jjc Make typed literal changes in concepts.
ACTION: jjc Review concepts to make consequential changes concerning typed 
literals
ACTION: path Review semantics to make changes concerning typed literals
ACTION: jjc Provide anchor for rdf:XMLLiteral to Pat Hayes
ACTION: daveb Change Ntriples to remove language from typed literals
ACTION: daveb Review syntax to make changes concerning typed literals
ACTION: jang Review all tests to make changes concerning typed literals
ACTION: em Review primer to make changes concerning typed literals
ACTION: bwm Review issue list and update those affected.
ACTION: jjc Inform reagle-0[12] raisers of typed literals decision
ACTION: path Tell pfps of change to literals decision
ACTION: jjc Inform I18N-WG of literals decision.
ACTION: bwm Update status of pfps-08 if necessary




13: Issue xmlsch-01 Typed Literal Structure

 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0252.html

The discussion started on point 3, wondering why we did 
not give a rationale.
It was mentioned that the real rationale was that all 
other possibilities ended in argument.
The phrase "given we don't have the resources"
was discussed at length.
Connolly proposed the amendment
"the working group chose to spend its writing resource on 
explanatory text and formal specification
rather than justification"
instead of the above text.
Jeremy proposed the text in 252 with this amendment.
RESOLVED: xmlsch-01 as in 252 with amendment.
ACTION: jjc To send response on xmlsch-01.


14: Issue xmlsch-02 Whitespace facets

Proposal:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0097.html

Discussion of need for more test cases:
i.e. opposite of test case in 0097 
Where "lit"@type is well-formed
    a p "lit"@type 
entails 
    a p _:x . 
    _:x rdf:type rdfs:Literal .

Jeremy proposes msg 0097 with additional test cases, connolly seconds
Abstention: graham.
RESOLVED: xmlsch-02 addressed by msg-0097.

ACTION: jang Is inverse of test case 0097 true or not?
(In IRC he says "not" 2 minutes and 21 seconds after the action
was assigned)

These actions are not in IRC added as suggestions from scribe:
ACTION: jjc Updated concepts in lite of xmlsch-02 decision
ACTION: daveb Review syntax and make changes for xmlsch-02.


15: Semantics Issues
Not reached.

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Received on Saturday, 10 May 2003 07:56:09 EDT

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