W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org > November 2002

Minutes of RDF Core Telcon 2002-11-01

From: Dave Beckett <dave.beckett@bristol.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 18:56:56 +0000
To: RDFCore Working Group <w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <12529.1036349816@hoth.ilrt.bris.ac.uk>


Agenda:
	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Nov/0016.html

Transcript: 
	http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2002-11-01
        http://www.w3.org/2002/11/01-rdfcore-irc.txt

New action items:
   ACTION 2002-11-01#1 emiller: to get editors of concepts to make
    changes outlined in
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Nov/0001.html
    as requested and publish 
   ACTION 2002-11-01#2 emiller: arrange publication of syntax with DaveB
   ACTION 2002-11-01#3 frankm: Discuss overlap between primer & concepts
    doc with concepts' editors.
   ACTION 2002-11-01#4 daveb: review syntax section of primer
   ACTION 2002-11-01#5 danbri: review schema section of primer
   ACTION 2002-11-01#6 stevep: review all of primer
   ACTION 2002-11-01#7 bwm: review all of primer
   ACTION 2002-11-01#8 Patricks: review datatypes section in primer
   ACTION 2002-11-01#9 patH: look at reification section in primer
   ACTION 2002-11-01#10 bwm: Ask i18wg to review the datatype-lang form.
   ACTION 2002-11-01#11 DanC: Create test cases for
    non-datatyped/simple literals  
   ACTION 2002-11-01#12 bwm: ask JanG about state of testcases wd
   ACTION 2002-11-01#13 DanC: review schema draft
   ACTION 2002-11-01#14 danbri: Contact jjc/gk to ask them to review
    schema draft
   ACTION 2002-11-01#15 bwm: review schema draft
   ACTION 2002-11-01#16 danbri: team contact for publishinging LBase note


1. Scribe:
    Next week's scribe is Mike Dean, with help from Aaron

2: Roll Call

Participants:

  Dave Beckett (scribe)
  Dan Brickley
  Dan Connolly
  Jos de Roo
  Pat Hayes
  Frank Manola
  Eric Miller
  Brian McBride (chair)
  Steve Petschulat
  Patrick Stickler
  Aaron Swartz

Regrets:
  Jeremy Carroll
  Jan Grant
  Graham Klyne

3. Review agenda
  No AOB raised.


4: Next telecon 8th Nov 2002, same time


5: Minutes of 2002-10-25 telecon
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Oct/0386.html

APPROVED

6: Confirm Status of Completed Actions

ACTION: 2002-10-25#1 jjc
ACTION: 2002-10-25#2 bwm
ACTION: 2002-10-25#5 jjc
ACTION: 2002-10-25#10 DanC

All DONE

7: Confirm Status of Withdrawn Actions

ACTION: 2002-10-25#8 JosD

All DONE


8: Doc Schedule

Brian reminded people of the agreed schedule:

01/Nov  Agree to publish concepts doc and and syntax doc
         Primer ready for review
         Schema ready for review
         Test cases ready for review

08/Nov  Agree to publish Primer, Schema and Test cases
         concepts doc and syntax doc published
         Model theory ready for review

13/Nov Email confirmation of publication of MT

15/Nov  at the latest - Primer, Schema, MT and Test cases published

See:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Oct/0320.html


9: Concepts Doc
2002-10-25#7  DanC  review concepts doc
  DONE
2002-10-25#8  JosD  review concepts doc
2002-10-25#6  PatH  review concepts doc
  WITHDRAWN

Reviews:

  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Oct/0564.html

The meeting noted that neither of the editors of the document was
present and discussed publishing.  There were two reviews from
Brian, DanC.  PatH did some reviewing with comments similar to Brian,
not published - happy that the doc is ready, saw no showstopper problems.

Review of the critical comments from DanC given  in 
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Nov/0001.html

The working group agreed with DanC's comments and those changes
should be made.

The other modifications at editors discretion:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Oct/0320.html
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Oct/0490.html
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Oct/0564.html

Document title change at editors discression.

ACTION 2002-11-01#1 emiller: to get editors of concepts to make
  changes outlined in
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Nov/0001.html
  as requested and publish 

RESOLVED: to publish concepts and abstract syntax doc


10: Syntax Document
Reviews:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Oct/0564.html
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Oct/0555.html

Discussion of reviews.  DaveB happy to add a note to section 2 that
says in case of dispute, the later parts of the document take
prescedence over section 2.  DanC has some reservations with this,
happy to address this later.  DaveB agrees to make the changes listed
in the agenda:

  o a statement that any conflict between section 2 and the more formal 
sections of the spec, section 2 loses.

  o a disclaimer in section 2 saying that whilst the substance is not 
expected to change much, it is new text that is likely to undergo 
substantial editorial revision.

  o changes in response to other review comments at editors discretion.

Proposal to publish is agreed.

ACTION 2002-11-01#2 emiller: arrange publication of syntax with DaveB


11: Primer
2002-02-25#17  EricM  Ensure primer has appropriate description of use of rdf:value
  DONE
2002-04-19#16  danbri  review effect of containerMembershipProperty superproperty on primer
  CONTINUED
2002-05-03#4  em  liase with danbri to ensure primer and schema stay in sync over the isDefinedBy issue
  CONTINUED
2002-08-23#1  DanC  review primer text and propose alternative that clarifies status of Alt
  WITHDRAWN
2002-09-13#5  FrankM  update primer to reflect datatype concensus
  DONE

Discussion of new draft proposed for publication and actions above.
Frank had added a new description of rdf:value, needs help with this
to check it.

  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Oct/0605.html

Frank asked all reviewers to make notes where there is overlap with
other documents and write suggested changes notes if needed.
Suggestions for words in the primer status section to reflect this
were made by danbri:
   we might say "The WG acknowledge that their is some overlap
   between the normative specs and the primer, and in particular
   solicit feedback from reviewers on the partitioning of content
   between these documents"

ACTION 2002-11-01#3 frankm: Discuss overlap between primer & concepts
doc with concepts' editors.

Call for reviewers. 
  DanC has already contributed:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Oct/0608.html  

ACTION 2002-11-01#4 daveb: review syntax section of primer
ACTION 2002-11-01#5 danbri: review schema section of primer
ACTION 2002-11-01#6 stevep: review all of primer
ACTION 2002-11-01#7 bwm: review all of primer
ACTION 2002-11-01#8 Patricks: review datatypes section in primer
ACTION 2002-11-01#9 patH: look at reification section in primer

and Eric noted this isn't exclusive, other WG members should read
this if possible.

Discussion of the RDF in HTML section, DanC has a critical comment in
that we aren't encouraging people to do that.  The Issue:
   http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-validating-embedded-rdf
and original decision
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001Nov/0294.html 
Discussion to be taken to email.


12: Model Theory
2002-02-25#18  bwm  ensure model theory updated to reflect semantics of rdf:value
2002-06-17#4  patH  Update the model theory to specify that rdfs:isDefinedBy is an rdfs:subPropertyOf rdfs:seeAlso.
2002-09-13#4  PatH  to update model theory to cover 4 to reflect datatype consensus
  All CONTINUED

PatH estimates it will be available for review Wed 6 earliest, likely
Fri 8 Nov.  Brian noted if necessary the group will try to get an
agreement to publish by email (as noted in the schedule
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Oct/0320.html )

Dissussion of the Issuettes in:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Oct/0581.html

Issuette all1: To label or not to label nodes.

Discussion to remove labelling phrase.  DaveB noted the syntax WD
already has changed to this.  FrankM asked for a clarification of
describing nodes in a *picture* of a graph and it was agreed using
labelling nodes with URi-refs there is OK.  In the RDF graph however,
the nodes are URIs (etc.)

DECISION: use the nodes are URI-refs notation, subject to
confirmation/objections from jjc/gk 

Issuette all2: lang tags on datayped literals.

After discussion, the issue is not reopened.

ACTION 2002-11-01#10 bwm: Ask i18wg to review the datatype-lang form.

Issuette mt3: What do old style literals denote

Discussion of denoting themselves or the union of (string, (string,
lang)) form and if string is an xsd:string.  This wasn't felt
necessary to require.  DanC asked that the strings be compatible with
xsd:string; satisfyable, but not guaranteed, not rule it out/in.

DECISION: non datatype literals are the union of (strings and pair of
(string, lang tag)).  It is not specified if the strings are the same as
xsd;string or not.

ACTION 2002-11-01#11 DanC: Create test cases for non-datatyped/simple literals 


Issuette Schema1: Whats in the class rdf:Literal?

DECISION: all datatype values are members of rdfs:Literal

Issuette mt1: List semantics.

The WG previously decided there were no list semantics.  After
discussion, there was no consensus on a change. For discussion.

Issuette mt2: Datatypes in the semantics.

Discussion of the way that the semantics are built up and what
layers are base.  This ended up with rdf, rdf+RDFS with datatypes.

             
13: Testcases
2001-10-26-#1  bwm  make a test case to illustrate set/bag decision
2002-02-25#9  JanG  Ensure test cases for rdf:foo added to test cases WD
2002-04-05#5  Jeremy  write test cases for rdfms-xml-literal-namespaces
2002-04-19#14  danc  do entailement test case for container with rdfs:contains
2002-04-19#18  jan  produce test case for rdfs-subClassOf-a-Property
2002-06-07#3  JanG  Fold in the consensus test cases and bring back the rest to the group
2002-06-07#4  JanG  Update the test case problems reported by JeremyC and DaveB
2002-05-31#3  JanG  Update test case document with tests for parseType collection
2002-09-13#6  Jan  create testcase to reflect datatype concensus
2002-09-20#1  jjc  Produce test case domain and range.
2002-10-11#1  janG  add test cases from msg Oct/0098

 All CONTINUED

ACTION 2002-11-01#12 bwm: ask JanG about state of testcases wd


14: Schema
2002-06-17#1  danbri  Update RDFS spec to reflect resolution of rdfms-seq-representation
2002-06-17#5  danbri  Update the schema spec to reflect the resolution of rdfs-isDefinedBy.2002-06-17#6  danbri  Add to the schema document a comment clarifying the relationship between the idea that there is exactly one namespace or schema associated with a property and the rdfs:isDefinedBy property.
2002-06-17#7  danbri  Update the schema spec to account for editorial issues listed under rdfs-editorial.
2002-06-18#1  danbri  republish the current rdf schema to the current rdf schema uri
2002-07-12#6  danbri  try to move sec 5 to schema doc
2002-09-13#3  Danbri  update schema to cover 2.1, 3.1, 3.2, 5 to reflect datatype concensus

  All CONTINUED

danbri reports working on a new draft, ETA Monday 4 November.

Call for reviewers

ACTION 2002-11-01#13 DanC: review schema draft
ACTION 2002-11-01#14 danbri: Contact jjc/gk to ask them to review schema draft
ACTION 2002-11-01#15 bwm: review schema draft


15: LBase Document
Propose approve publication as a note.

  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Oct/0046.html

The group agreed to see this as an RDF Core spin-off document rather
than a working group output, a useful document for discussion.

DECISION: approved to publish lbase note

ACTION 2002-11-01#16 danbri: team contact for publishinging LBase note


The meeting closed.
Received on Sunday, 3 November 2002 13:59:53 EST

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