W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org > July 2002

Missing F2F IRC logs 2002-06-18 [was Re: Datatypes]

From: Dave Beckett <dave.beckett@bristol.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:09:55 +0100
To: RDF Core <w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org>
CC: Patrick Stickler <patrick.stickler@nokia.com>
Message-ID: <10778.1028106595@hoth.ilrt.bris.ac.uk>

>>>Patrick Stickler said:
> It's too bad that the list we produced was not reflected in the official
> minutes from the f2f. Perhaps it is somewhere in the IRC logs.

Sorry, that's my fault - they were recorded when the IRC logging was
down and although I recovered them, I hadn't restored them in-situ.
I attach the logs below which include the following list of
datatyping things (lightly editing for presentation):

 1. Simple inline idiom:
      <Jenny> <age> "10" .
 2. Connolly entailment: 
      <john> <age> "10" .
      <jenny> <age> "10" .
       ==> 
      <john> <age> _:x .
      <jenny> <age> _:x .
 3. Explicit representation of a value:
      <Jenny> <age> _:b .
       _b <xsd:int> "10" .
 4. Cannes entailment:
      <age> <drange> <xsd:int> .
      <Jenny> <age> "10" .
      <john> <age> _:b .
      _:b <xsd:int> "10" .
      ==>
     <Jenny> <age> _:b .
 5. Only one age property required.
 6. One name for datatype
 7. Semantic tidiness
 8. Incompatibile datatypes
 9. Compatibility with existing practice
10. Query template
11. Minimal machinery
12. Prefer no syntax change


Dave
---

These are the missing F2F IRC logs for 2002-06-18

The last item it recorded before the bot left was:
  http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2002-06-18.html#T08-32-50
  <dajobe-la> added Graph Syntax

The first item it recorded after returning:
  http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2002-06-18.html#T09-42-21

The missing items:

08:32:39 <dajobe-la>	added Graph Syntax
08:34:02 <dajobe-la>	item rdf schema, just done
08:34:08 <dajobe-la>	action recorded above
08:34:24 <dajobe-la>	item datatypes
08:34:54 -->	jjc (~jjc@hplb.hpl.hp.com) has joined #rdfcore
08:35:06 <jjc>	nick jjc-scribe
08:35:19 ---	jjc is now known as jjc-scrib
08:35:36 <jjc-scrib>	Datatypes === Session 6
08:35:52 <jjc-scrib>	bwm: let's go over rationale for stake-in-ground
08:36:12 <jjc-scrib>	bwm: let's make trade-offs explicit
08:36:34 <jjc-scrib>	bwm: we could make different choices if strong agreement
08:36:40 <JosD>	* JosD waves to em
08:36:54 <jjc-scrib>	bwm: if we rathole then back to stake-in-the-ground or give up
08:36:58 <-- logger_1 has quit (Ping timeout)
08:37:31 <jjc-scrib> bwm continues trying to identify tradeoffs ....
08:37:41 <jjc-scrib> Requirements:
08:37:57 <jjc-scrib> 1. simple inline idiom: <Jenny> <age> "10" .
08:38:02 <dajobe-la> (note logger may not be here, but I'll record the logs publically later)
08:38:58 <jjc-scrib> 2. Connolly entailment: <john> <age> "10"; <jenny> <age> "10" ==> <john> <age> _:x; <jenny> <age> _:x .
08:39:36 --> danbri has joined #rdfcore
08:39:54 <jjc-scrib> 3. Explicit representation of a value: <Jenny> <age> _:b; _b <xsd:int> "10" .
08:42:05 <jjc-scrib> 4. Cannes entailment: <age> <drange> <xsd:int>; <Jenny> <age> "10"; <john> <age> _:b; _:b <xsd:int> "10". ==> <Jenny> <age> _:b .
08:42:23 <jjc-scrib> 5. Only one age property required.
08:42:45 <jjc-scrib> 6. One name for datatype
08:44:34 <jjc-scrib> jos: we could use two names ala bwm a few weeks ago
08:44:45 <jjc-scrib> jjc: what is the uri for xsd:int?
08:45:35 <jjc-scrib> 7. tidiness (both syntactic and semantic)
08:49:30 <-- bwm has quit (Ping timeout)
08:49:36 <jjc-scrib> discussion of syntactic vs semantic tidiness
08:50:41 <dajobe-la> (roll call?)
08:51:01 <jjc-scrib> md: "graph tidiness" not syntactic tidiness
08:51:24 <jjc-scrib> 7. graph tidiness
08:51:29 <jjc-scrib> 8. semantic tidiness
08:52:49 <jjc-scrib> graph tidiness deleted - since the advocates want semantic tidiness
08:53:15 <jjc-scrib> 7. semantic tidiness
08:53:24 <jjc-scrib> 8. incompatibile datatypes
08:53:41 <jjc-scrib> 9. compatibility with existing practice
08:54:42 <jjc-scrib> 10. query template
08:56:11 <jjc-scrib> 11. minimal machinery
08:57:52 <jjc-scrib> 12. Prefer no syntax change
09:03:11 <jjc-scrib> discussion of 2.
09:04:09 <jjc-scrib> path, guha: we have a solution which gives 2 but not 7 (range depends on property)
09:04:43 <jjc-scrib> bwm: how about property rdf:object (from reification vocab)
09:05:27 <jjc-scrib> bwm: currently no constraint that there is an implicit datatype range
09:06:09 <jjc-scrib> guha: connolly entailement is necessary for consistency
09:06:53 <jjc-scrib> connolly entailment is is the interpretation of the triple a fucntion of only the predicate and object
09:09:04 --> bwm has joined #rdfcore
09:09:41 <jjc-scrib> guha: what are the arguments to the denotation of the string
09:09:55 <jjc-scrib> jjc: jenny child, john baby, years vs months
09:10:22 <jjc-scrib> patrick displays document
09:10:35 <jjc-scrib> without URL
09:12:20 <jjc-scrib> guha: consider function df("FFF", s1, NULL) "FFF" is lexial value, s1 is prop, NULL is datatype range
09:13:05 <jjc-scrib> we can work on the desiderata in terms of the arguments to the df function
09:13:59 <jjc-scrib> guha: df is deterministic
09:15:13 <jjc-scrib> mike: s1 is subj or propety. guha: property
09:15:38 <jjc-scrib> sergey: as long as df has more arguments than merely "FFF" then we are in the semantictally untidy
09:16:40 <jjc-scrib> guha: codes for cities from db usage
09:17:23 <jjc-scrib> jos: issue to do with non-monotocity?
09:17:34 <jjc-scrib> path: no NULL is an existential quantifier
09:17:46 <jjc-scrib> guha: agree with pat
09:18:34 <jjc-scrib> jjc: null is quantification over unknown set of datatypes
09:18:49 <jjc-scrib> guha: NULL stands for a datatype but we don't know which
09:20:17 <jjc-scrib> frank: df takes the literal in context and decontextualises it
09:20:27 <jjc-scrib> ^frank^guha
09:24:48 --> bwm_ has joined #rdfcore
09:24:49 <-- bwm has quit (Connection reset by peer)
09:24:59 <jjc-scrib> discussion about how to discuss
09:26:44 <jjc-scrib> sergey: tidiness is crucial issue
09:31:09 <jjc-scrib> gk: tidy case L2V is a fucntion of string
09:33:08 <jjc-scrib> sergey: makes presentation
09:33:30 <jjc-scrib> datatypes are strictly on top of RDF schema
09:34:26 <jjc-scrib> sergey: simplify xsd 4-way dts to a 2-way set of individuals and facets
09:35:39 <jjc-scrib> int example
09:39:02 <jjc-scrib> sergey the facets of integers can be mapped onto facets of lexical tokens that correspond to integers
09:39:16 <jjc-scrib> gk: may i test my understanding
09:40:01 <jjc-scrib> gk: are datatypes in domain of discourse?
09:41:05 <jjc-scrib> patrick: RDF does not care about facets
09:41:24 <jjc-scrib> sergey: facets determine the semantics of a datatype
09:41:39 --> logger_1  has joined #rdfcore
09:42:10 <jjc-scrib>	path: are we talikng about the value spac or the lexical space
Received on Wednesday, 31 July 2002 05:12:28 EDT

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