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Re: Change request -- was Re: Alternative XPathFilter - a picture says more...

From: Christian Geuer-Pollmann <geuer-pollmann@nue.et-inf.uni-siegen.de>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:01:21 +0200
To: merlin <merlin@baltimore.ie>
Cc: John Boyer <JBoyer@PureEdge.com>, reagle@w3.org, w3c-ietf-xmldsig@w3.org
Message-ID: <4841481.1020762081@pinkpanther>
Hi all,

sorry, sorry. I was wrong -- I can't optimize the xmldsig-xfilter2. I was 
mixing my tree-labeling-mechanism with xmldsig-xfilter2 and thought that I 
can label the tree with the information from all xmldsig-xfilter2 
transforms and then do only perform a single performant traversal, but 
that's not possible with the current processing model.



I overlooked the fact that e.g. a union(/) as last transform wastes all 
previous ones (because it re-includes everything) and that I'm forced to 
perform each step to see what happens. The difference between 
xmldsig-xfilter2 [1] and my approach [2] is that

- [1] forces the implementation to do each transform subsequently without 
having a chance to make some optimizations. There is even the chance that 
some transforms in a sequence are redundant. Well, it's more performant 
that the standard XPath filter in a way that an XPath does not has to be 
evaluated against each node in the input nodeset, but it's a little bit 
unperformant in the way that the filter must perform 'n' tree operations of 
there are 'n' transforms. Each transform only communicates information on 
selection/de-selection of particular nodes, and each selection/de-selection 
must be done imediately .

- while [2] describes the full picture in a single step; All 
selection/de-selection information can be communicated in a single 
transform. This does NOT require more XPath evaluations that [1]. After 
this step, the algorithm does a traversal over the DOM and that's it. No 
more operations. Very similar (even better preformance).

Regards,
Christian

PS: Actually, I don't know why [2] is not considered by anybody be worth to 
have a closer look at. Is it that I did not communicate clearly the 
processing model? Do I have to provide a more-extensive example? Are the 
implementations of [1] deployed in production environments so that we MUST 
make [1] a TR? Are we in time pressure that we must get a TR before this or 
that date? Nobody want's to waste time with my weird idea? It would be a 
great help for me to understand why I see this strong resistance.

[1] <http://www.w3.org/Signature/Drafts/xmldsig-xfilter2/>, Revision v1.5
[2] 
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-ietf-xmldsig/2002JanMar/0226.html>
 
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-ietf-xmldsig/2002JanMar/0236.html>








--On Montag, 6. Mai 2002 20:14 +0200 Christian Geuer-Pollmann 
<geuer-pollmann@nue.et-inf.uni-siegen.de> wrote:

> --On Dienstag, 19. März 2002 23:48 +0000 merlin <merlin@baltimore.ie>
> wrote:
>
>> Admittedly, it allows operations such as exclude an element in
>> the middle of a tree, but include its children ("H" in your example),
>> but I don't think that these features are compelling. People can use
>> the old XPath if they need an operation as esoteric as that.
>
> Hi Merlin,
> hi all
>
> First, in reply to Merlin's post[2], I'm happy to confirm that the
> current spec of "XML-Signature XPath Filter 2.0" [1] allows my esoteric
> suggestion from [3] ;-) (I attached the sample at this mail).
>
> Now to I have a suggestion/change request about the "XML-Signature XPath
> Filter 2.0" [1]:
>
> ---
> What I want: I want to be able to "merge" multiple, subsequent (directly
> followinf each other) xmldsig-xfilter2 transforms into a single transform.
>
> ---
> Why I want it: First, this transform is cool - it really rules. This
> transform is very powerful in the ways how easily I (as a user) can
> express my wishes on what I want to sign - simply in a subtree language
> which is really intuitive. The real power of this transform becomes
> visible if I chain multiple of these transforms into a direct sequence: I
> can cut, divide, include, exclude, whatever I want. My own implementation
> has a very clean interface on what is given from a previous to a
> following transform: either an octet stream or an xpath node set. If I
> want to release the full power of this transform, I need all
> intersect/subtract/union information in my hands in a single transform.
> THEN I can speed up and touch every node only once. The processing model
> does not change: Multiple 'steps' (whereas e.g. a single union operation
> is a step) are applied in the order in which they appear in the transform.
>
> ---
> How this could look like:
>
> <ds:Transform Algorithm="http://www.w3.org/2002/04/xmldsig-filter2"
>        xmlns:dsig-xpath="http://www.w3.org/2002/04/xmldsig-filter2">
>   <dsig-xpath:XPath Filter="intersect"> //E </dsig-xpath:XPath>
>   <dsig-xpath:XPath Filter="union">     //B </dsig-xpath:XPath>
>   <dsig-xpath:XPath Filter="subtract">  //C </dsig-xpath:XPath>
>   <dsig-xpath:XPath Filter="union">     //F </dsig-xpath:XPath>
>   <dsig-xpath:XPath Filter="subtract">  //G </dsig-xpath:XPath>
>   <dsig-xpath:XPath Filter="union">     //H </dsig-xpath:XPath>
> </ds:Transform>
> ---
>
> Note to the schema cracks: Here, I have multiple child elements put
> directly into the ds:Transform. If it's more philosphically correct,
> insert an intermediary element like that:
>
> <ds:Transform Algorithm="http://www.w3.org/2002/04/xmldsig-filter2"
>        xmlns:dsig-xpath="http://www.w3.org/2002/04/xmldsig-filter2">
>   <dsig-xpath:XPathSequence>
>   <dsig-xpath:XPath Filter="intersect"> //E </dsig-xpath:XPath>
>   <dsig-xpath:XPath Filter="union">     //B </dsig-xpath:XPath>
>   <dsig-xpath:XPath Filter="subtract">  //C </dsig-xpath:XPath>
>   <dsig-xpath:XPath Filter="union">     //F </dsig-xpath:XPath>
>   <dsig-xpath:XPath Filter="subtract">  //G </dsig-xpath:XPath>
>   <dsig-xpath:XPath Filter="union">     //H </dsig-xpath:XPath>
>   </dsig-xpath:XPathSequence>
> </ds:Transform>
>
> Regards,
> Christian
>
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/Signature/Drafts/xmldsig-xfilter2/
>     Revision v1.5
> [2]
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-ietf-xmldsig/2002JanMar/0237.html
> [3]
> 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-ietf-xmldsig/2002JanMar/att-0236/01
-xpath2filter_tree.gif
Received on Tuesday, 7 May 2002 02:56:35 GMT

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