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Re: FW: WebFolders on Intranet

From: S.Matthew Hersey <smh@certaintysolutions.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:14:02 -0800
Message-ID: <005201c075b9$55c139a0$9b01a8c0@main.gnac.com>
To: <gorasche@hyperwave.com>, "Douglas Steen" <dsteen@eKeeper.Com>
Cc: <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>
I'm interested in seeing exactly how Microsoft Support phrased that answer, in context...
Could you forward that message to the list, or cut and paste the section you've quoted.
...wondering how FPX would be used, and whether this would cause some security issue.

Stewart Hersey
www.newma.net



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Douglas Steen" <dsteen@eKeeper.Com>
To: <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 7:43 AM
Subject: RE: FW: WebFolders on Intranet


It is not too surprising that the current versions have intractable
problems; releasing first-version code that works but not quite in all cases
is pretty standard -- and not only for Microsoft.  Honestly, I give them a
lot of credit for implementing the standard at all; I know of no other
company their size who has put WebDAV in both their flagship server (W2K)
and flagship client (Office2K) products.

However, the response "Why don't you use FrontPage extensions?" does worry
me.  Is this just ignorance of WebDAV from the support staff (which wouldn't
surprise me), or does it show a larger disregard for the protocol from
within Microsoft?  FrontPage extensions and WebDAV are -- in many respects
-- duplicate work.  If MS is dropping WebDAV in favor of FrontPage
extensions, or some other standard even, it could spell doom for a protocol
that has been (to say the least) widely ignored by the technical community.

Does anyone -- particularly from inside Microsoft -- care to comment on
this?  I'd really like some assurances, especially if they are backed up
with facts, that Microsoft is intending to fix these problems and to
continue to support the WebDAV protocol.

    Douglas R. Steen
    dsteen@eKeeper.Com
    Drag-and-Drop Web Content Management
    http://www.eKeeper.com
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Gerbert Orasche [mailto:gorasche@hyperwave.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 3:21 AM
To: Stewart Hersey; Douglas Steen
Cc: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org
Subject: RE: FW: WebFolders on Intranet


Stewart,

I am not completely sure, if I have understood your mail properly. As far as
I understand the WebDAV standard, it does not specifiy if the client
connection is done via a proxy or not. For me that means that a client has
to support any type of HTTP connection (also if MS is writing the client)
and if it can not handle direct HTTP it's simply a bug. Any TCPIP client
closes a connection, if the operation should be cancelled or at least sends
something saying: "Uh, I can't go on". MS WebDAV client does simply nothing.

Using a proxy is not really an option in many cases (I am still not sure if
it would help with our problem), because NTLM authentication does not work
via proxies. Again the WebDAV standard does not mention which HTTP
authentication method has to be used (which is not a flaw at all - WebDAV
shouldn't have to bother with authentication). Earlier versions of MSs
WebDAV client had severe problems with basic authentication, thus it worked
well only in combination with NTLM (or perhaps Digest) authentication.

What are you all thinking about this? Our customers pay a whole lot to
Microsoft to use their OSes and Office packages. (We are talking about
companies like Siemens, UBS etc.) Thus MS should provide a WebDAV
implementation, which is usable (at least with their own IIS WebDAV
implementation). First answer we got from all MS support levels was: "Why
don't you use Frontpage extensions?" which renders the IETF standard
useless.

Gerbert

> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org
> [mailto:w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Stewart Hersey
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 6:58 AM
> To: Douglas Steen
> Cc: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org
> Subject: Re: FW: WebFolders on Intranet

[...]

> What's New says (NOTE* Fix for Gerbert's XML/WebDAV on Intranet issue):
>
> "For servers running on an intranet, it's necessary to run the
> proxycfg.exe utility to configure WinHTTP to access HTTP and HTTPS
> servers through a proxy server. For example, you would use the
> proxycfg.exe utility as part of the deployment and installation
> process of an application that uses the ServerXMLHTTP component
> to access WinHTTP."
>
> proxycfg.exe can be downloaded here:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdn-files/027/001/468/Proxycfg.exe
> For more information, please refer to the readme included with
> the download.
>
>
> Finally, the most recent MS threads regarding WinHTTP:
>
> -Is there any more information on WinHTTP. I would like to adjust
> the winHTTP Registry settings programmatically but can't find any
> information on the structure of the key.
> - Anonymous 20 Dec 2000
>
> -Re: WinHTTP
> No, at this time, the format of the WinHTTP proxy settings stored
> in the registry is not documented and cannot be changed
> programmatically.
> - Anonymous 29 Dec 2000
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> smh
>
> S. Matthew Hersey
> Newma Net Works
> www.newma.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Douglas Steen" <dsteen@eKeeper.Com>
> To: <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 7:36 AM
> Subject: RE: FW: WebFolders on Intranet
>
>
> Does anyone know if this is simply another symptom of the problem MS has
> with its wininet.dll?  It sounds very similar: connection won't
> close, etc.
> They've got another web access interface now, in msxml3.dll, which
> specifically avoids use of wininet (see
> http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q237/9/06.ASP),
> and they've
> acknowledged it to be a problem.
>
> So, if this is the same problem, we can at least know that it has been
> recognized, and they know it needs to be fixed.
>
>     Douglas R. Steen
>     dsteen@eKeeper.Com
>     Drag-and-Drop Web Content Management
>     http://www.eKeeper.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerbert Orasche [mailto:gorasche@hyperwave.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 2:53 AM
> To: Stewart Hersey; Peter Pierrou; Mac@telseon.com; w3c-dist-auth@w3.org
> Subject: RE: FW: WebFolders on Intranet
>
>
> I have forgotten to mention that the fatal hang of the whole
> desktop happens
> with MS Office 2000 SR-1. However, all other versions of WebFolders (there
> are quite many of them: Office, IE, OS etc.) also don't shut down
> the TCPIP
> connection, which can lead to interesting effects with some WebDAV servers
> like IIS.
>
> I am still not sure, if we are talking about the same bug. After the user
> has pressed the Cancel button there are no more flying folders.
> Users won't
> even notice that the connection is still open until they have Office SR-1.
>
> Gerbert
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org
> > [mailto:w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Stewart Hersey
> > Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 5:00 PM
> > To: gorasche@hyperwave.com; Peter Pierrou; Mac@telseon.com;
> > w3c-dist-auth@w3.org
> > Subject: Re: FW: WebFolders on Intranet
> >
> >
> > Ahhh! You have just described the FFFFOO effect (Files Flying
> > Folder to Folder Out of Oblivion).
> >
> > We've experienced a similar kludge, although the error is rarely fatal.
> >
> > I expect Microsoft to post the patch on Windows Update once it's
> > been compiled...
> >
> > S. Matthew Hersey
> > President and CTO
> > Newma Net Works, Inc.
> > www.newma.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gerbert Orasche" <gorasche@hyperwave.com>
> > To: "Peter Pierrou" <Peter.Pierrou@excosoft.se>;
> > <Mac@telseon.com>; <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 4:50 AM
> > Subject: RE: FW: WebFolders on Intranet
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org
> > > [mailto:w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Peter Pierrou
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 9:36 AM
> > > To: Mac@telseon.com; w3c-dist-auth@w3.org
> > > Subject: Re: FW: WebFolders on Intranet
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > > Interested in getting in touch with any companies that are
> > > using WebDAV on
> > > > their Intranet.
> > We are also using our own product within our Intra-/Extranet.
> However, we
> > have been stumbling quite often over bugs in Microsoft's WebDAV client
> > implementation. Only two weeks ago we have escalated a WebFolder
> > problem to
> > Redmond and hope to get a hotfix soon. It was about freezing Windows
> > Explorer (and thus the whole desktop) whenever a user hits the
> > Cancel button
> > while uploading. The MS WebDAV client then stops to upload but the TCPIP
> > connection stays open. Our server runs into a timeout, IIS
> > doesn't (at least
> > not within reasonable time)
> >
> > cu
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> > Gerbert Orasche, Senior Software Engineer
> > Hyperwave Software R&D, Albrechtgasse 9/2, A-8010 Graz, Austria
> >
> > Tel: ++43-316-820918-11
> > Fax: ++43-316-820918-99
> > mailto:gorasche@hyperwave.com
> > http://www.hyperwave.com
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 3 January 2001 14:18:03 GMT

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