- From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
- Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 23:00:12 +1100
- To: Mike Schinkel <mikeschinkel@gmail.com>
- Cc: "'Ian Hickson'" <ian@hixie.ch>, "'Jerome Louvel'" <contact@noelios.com>, <whatwg@lists.whatwg.org>, "'URI'" <uri@w3.org>, "'REST Discuss'" <rest-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
On 01/11/2008, at 9:44 PM, Mike Schinkel wrote: > Second, hasn't it been obvious with the explosion of social media > that over > time the vast majority of content published on the web will be > published by > people using a server they do not control? Forums, Blog hosting, > Facebook, > LinkedIn, etc. etc. etc. Yes, but consider how little HTML is allowed by most of these, and why... > Plenty do but more do not, and many people on forums, blog posts and > mailing > lists recommend to others not to do so because of the performance > cost. The > cost of round trips has been used as a reason against certain web > architectures such as in discussions of ROBOTS.TXT and 303. > > Most notably people who write about web performance optimization who > happen > to work for your employer recommend against doing so: > > http://developer.yahoo.com/performance/rules.html#redirects > http://developer.yahoo.com/performance/rules.html#num_http Of course; the point I was trying to make is that avoiding a roundtrip isn't going to motivate a whole new technology, at least one that's so specialised. > BTW, the only person I've gotten resistance from on this besides > Hixie is > you... :) True, and if you're in a position to get your proposal accepted and implemented, I'll be the last to get in your way. > But that misses the point; the most compelling use-cases are for where > Javascript isn't available! If you define it as declarative markup and implement it for the browsing case with JavaScript, non-JS clients (e.g., robots) can still use the declarative markup, if they're aware of it. > So would it help if I could show you numerous examples where people > are > using Javascript to accomplish this with forms? Would that be the > "pain" you > are looking for? > > That said, what about the pain of not being able to crawl forms that > use > Javascript for this? Isn't that a compelling use case? I think I'll stop typing and listen to what others have to say. > As an aside, I'd be interested in any reference you have that I can > read up > on "standard's theory." Carl Cargill did a good job in "Open Systems Standardization": http://www.amazon.com/Open-Systems-Standardization-Business-Approach/dp/0132683199/ Cheers (and good night), -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/
Received on Saturday, 1 November 2008 12:00:56 UTC