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Re: ReSpec and references

From: Shane McCarron <shane@aptest.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:39:45 -0500
Message-ID: <4C572D11.1070908@aptest.com>
To: Gregg Kellogg <gregg@kellogg-assoc.com>
CC: Spec Prod <spec-prod@w3.org>
I agree that something like this would be really cool.  It would require 
more work than I really want to put in right now - and it would require 
instrumentation of all W3C specs in order for it to be maximally 
useful.  That's a good idea, but it seems like it might be above my pay 

Still pondering...

On 7/29/2010 2:43 PM, Gregg Kellogg wrote:
> I think the proper way to deal with this is through using fragments. For instance, [[CSS#named-pages]]. The question is, how to extract the relevant information to make a reasonable reference?
> Ultimately, bibliography information should be scoured from the documents themselves, presumably marked up with RDFa, as you've helped facilitate. Other documents might be processed using a GRDDL-like process to construct similar information, then a reference processor can make reasonable references using information defined in the document itself.
> For example, from the recent RDFa-core document, we get statements such as the following:
> @base<http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/WD-rdfa-core-20100803/>  .
> @prefix bibo:<http://purl.org/ontology/bibo/>  .
> @prefix dcterms:<http://purl.org/dc/terms/>  .
> @prefix foaf:<http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/>  .
> @prefix rdf:<http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#>  .
> @prefix xhv:<http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab#>  .
> <>  dcterms:title "RDFa Core 1.1";
>    dcterms:issued "2010-08-03T05:00:00+0000"^^<http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#dateTime>;
>     dcterms:publisher [ a foaf:Organization;
>       foaf:homepage<http://www.w3.org/>;
>       foaf:name "World Wide Web Consotrium"];
>     bibo:editor [ a foaf:Person;
>       foaf:mbox<mailto:ben@adida.net>;
>       foaf:name "Ben Adida";
>       foaf:workplaceHomepage<http://creativecommons.org/>],
>     [ a foaf:Person;
>       foaf:mbox<mailto:mark.birbeck@webBackplane.com>;
>       foaf:name "Mark Birbeck";
>       foaf:workplaceHomepage<http://webbackplane.com/>],
>     [ a foaf:Person;
>       foaf:homepage<http://blog.halindrome.com/>;
>       foaf:mbox<mailto:shane@aptest.com>;
>       foaf:name "Shane McCarron";
>       foaf:workplaceHomepage<http://www.aptest.com/>],
>     [ a foaf:Person;
>       foaf:mbox<mailto:ivan@w3.org>;
>       foaf:name "Ivan Herman";
>       foaf:workplaceHomepage<http://www.w3.org/>];
> <#accessing-the-processor-graph>  a bibo:Chapter .
> <#chaining>  a bibo:Chapter .
> <#changing-the-evaluation-context>  a bibo:Chapter .
> <#compact-uris>  a bibo:Chapter .
> <#conformance>  a bibo:Chapter .
> <#creating-a-new-item-with--typeof>  a bibo:Chapter .
> <#determining-the-subject-with-neither--about-nor--typeof>  a bibo:Chapter .
> Actually, the code could be a bit better, and extract section titles as well, for example:
> <#accessing-the-processor-graph>  a bibo:Chapter .
>    dcterms:title "7.6.1 Accessing the Processor Graph" .
> A reference could then be made to [[RDFA-CORE#accessing-the-processor-graph]] which could create something like the following:
> ...as discussed in<a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/WD-rdfa-core-20100803/accessing-the-processor-graph">Section 7.6.1 Accessing the Processor Graph</a>  of [<cite><a href="#ref-RDFA-CORE">RDFA-CORE</a></cite>]
> Of course, given the RDF graph, we don't need to maintain biblio files, and could simply make a reference to [[http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/WD-rdfa-core-20100803/accessing-the-processor-graph]], which could extract everything needed for making a reference from the RDF itself. Biblio files are useful when the source isn't in a standard RDF graph and statements need to either be created by hand, or though a separate processing step. It should be easy enough to process the existing biblio files to create information in RDFa format suitable for creating such references.
> Gregg
> On Jul 28, 2010, at 12:28 PM, Shane McCarron wrote:
>> So.... today during the PFWG Editors meeting, I learned that there is a
>> W3C standard way to do citations: http://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/#citation
>> Sadly, this is not the way ReSpec does it - and it is not super easy to
>> change ReSpec to do it this way.  I also think it is stupid, but I think
>> lots of the pubrules are stupid...
>> Anyway, What I was wondering is if there is a way to extend the current
>> reference architecture so that it could magically do the text leading up
>> to the reference AND the reference itself - wrapping them in the silly
>> cite and a elements, inserting abbr elements as needed.  My first
>> thought was to do something like this:
>> [[[lead in reference string]REFERENCE]] - that would be backward
>> compatible so existing specs wouldn't change and we wouldn't need to
>> change the bibliography file.  On the other hand, it would not magically
>> deal with abbreviations...
>> Another idea was that we just continue to use [[REFERENCE]], but allow
>> an extension to the biblio file that, if present, would supply the
>> lead-in text, the reference, and any necessary abbreviations.  This
>> would require changes to any spec that used ReSpec and used references
>> that were so annotated though.  That seems like a bad idea.
>> Finally, I considered some more subtle extension combined with changing
>> the biblio file.  Like [[@REFERENCE]] would mean insert a reference and
>> the standard lead-in for it.  [[REFERENCE]] would work as it always had,
>> albeit also adding the surrounding<cite>  element.
>> Thoughts?
>> -- 
>> Shane P. McCarron                          Phone: +1 763 786-8160 x120
>> Managing Director                            Fax: +1 763 786-8180
>> ApTest Minnesota                            Inet: shane@aptest.com

Shane P. McCarron                          Phone: +1 763 786-8160 x120
Managing Director                            Fax: +1 763 786-8180
ApTest Minnesota                            Inet: shane@aptest.com
Received on Monday, 2 August 2010 20:40:17 UTC

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