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Re: New W3C Web Site Launched

From: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 11:28:17 -0500
To: Robin Berjon <robin@robineko.com>
Message-Id: <6143ED44-EAF8-41C8-89D2-A2B06B0658F9@w3.org>
Cc: site-comments@w3.org, chairs@w3.org

On 14 Oct 2009, at 11:16 AM, Robin Berjon wrote:

> Hi Ian,
>
> On Oct 14, 2009, at 17:19 , Ian Jacobs wrote:
>> and from the spec itself (for those that use the new templates)
>
>
> I see that the new templates are only used for Recs at this time.  
> While I generally like and applaud the new site, I'd like to  
> question whether that was the best move to make. Wouldn't, say, WG  
> Notes or long-stalled documents have made a better testing ground?

We had a beta test period for some time. Going live was intended to  
get more feedback (which is happening).
We will fix things as we go. If the new templates prove unfixable,  
we'll remove them.

> Looking at the reformatted SVG Tiny 1.2 Rec[0] I see a whole host of  
> issues and I really don't think that editing documents that are  
> widely normatively referenced (sometimes legally so) in ways that  
> risk breaking them, or making them unintelligible, is a great idea.

We've kept the previous documents available at their original URIs. We  
have new URIs for the reformatted specs. So people who wish to refer  
to the dated spec can continue to do so. The "latest version" URI  
takes you to the reformatted versions.

And if we find the reformatted ones just don't work, we can roll them  
back.

>
> I sent a fairly long list of issues about this part of the  
> redesign[1] and few seem to have been considered.

Yes, here's the document we used to track them:
  http://www.w3.org/2009/04/beta-comments.html

> While I fully understand that things take time and do support the  
> idea of the new site going live, I'd like to request that the Rec  
> reformatting be withdrawn so that we can work on it further until we  
> have confidence that it's done right.

Instead, I ask your patience while we fix bugs (which one should  
expect during a significant upgrade such as this one). If you need the  
stable previous specs in the meantime, those URIs still work.
>
> Amongst the more bothering issues, I really don't think that having  
> the logos of Google, Twitter, or Identi.ca on our standards sends  
> the right message.

On the question of "google on every page" we discussed this issue  
quite a bit. We certainly don't have the resources to write our own  
search engine. And offering N search options to users (in a gesture to  
be more neutral) is not really a service to users. We talked to google  
about dropping their logo requirement and they let us know that that  
would not be possible.

Regarding twitter and identi.ca, we are already using 2 rather than  
one. If we end up setting up our own microblog service at W3C, then we  
might promote it instead. But all of that would require more resources  
than we have currently allocated.

> Also, dropping the specific CSS style sheets that had been added  
> renders the documents nigh unreadable  they were added for a good  
> reason. I also note that the SotD has now been sent to the bottom of  
> the document, which sort of compounds my point about its custom  
> paragraph that is discussed in another thread here.
>
> I could go on, but I think that's a topic for deeper investigation.  
> Can we please revert this change until it's fixed?

I prefer to keep going and work out the bugs. The advantages of the  
new templates for TRs include:

  * integrated into the rest of site
  * status section has been moved down so people can begin reading  
more quickly
  * useful status bits now at the top
  * new and useful resources available on the right side

There are some challenges in ensuring we don't break formatting; we  
will continue to investigate and fix those.
If this experiment does not bear fruit, we will roll back. But given  
the largely positive feedback we've received, I'd like to keep  
plugging ahead for a short while.

For access to the previous versions, please see the new "history"  
pages that have links to all previous publications.

  _ Ian



>
>
> [0] http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-SVGTiny12-20090303/
> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/site-comments/2009Apr/ 
> 0009.html
>
> --
> Robin Berjon
>  robineko  setting new standards
>  http://robineko.com/
>
>
>
>

--
Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org)    http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/
Tel:                                      +1 718 260 9447
Received on Wednesday, 14 October 2009 16:34:46 GMT

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