Re: New semantic web related project - Finndesign Liitin

Thanks.
>Then again, even today
> you spread your information into countless computers, mobile devices,
> Internet, physical objects, and so on. In many places Liitin would
actually
> improve the situation if done right!
It's an extraordinary tall order, because the data sets are so huge, but
lets hope.

>Technical details is the easy part.

Technical evolution has its own, inexorable, momentum.
Not so long ago Henry Story made this post:-
Henry Story <https://plus.google.com/109693896432057207496>  -  Jul
26, 2011<https://plus.google.com/109693896432057207496/posts/3DFcymrP8V3>
-
Public
»"The trouble about progress is that it always looks much greater than it
really is" Nestroy« -- motto of the Philosophical Investigations
The Concept of Progress in Wittgenstein's
Thought<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPux50_cnxo>

There are some hard issues for us here when the technical progress has been
so accelerated. What, in the end, we can possibly (inherently possible) do
with the technical progress?

Moreover, for me, this actually does touch on my thinking about my work as
an analyst (but, interestingly, not my work when I was a programmer - no one
would have wanted to know).
What is identity, how and in which way is it derived from a group? Live
issues for me.

br,
Adam


Adam

On 16 September 2011 16:11, Jukka Tuominen <jukka.tuominen@finndesign.fi>
wrote:
>
> I hope I mostly answered these issues already... at least kind of?
>
> I would still like to say aloud one thing that may be obvious even
> otherwise. That is; there are bound to be many already foreseeable
problems
> and countless new issues to arise. However, I strongly believe that Liitin
> will have much more plusses than minuses. So, for the time being the focus
> is on exploration of possibilities and adaption to personal and communal
> life. I very much like the philosofical nature that you brought in. It
will
> definitely help to see the big picture. Technical details is the easy
part.
> Thanks again!
>
> br, jukka
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: semantic-web-request@w3.org [mailto:semantic-web-request@w3.org]On
>> Behalf Of Adam Saltiel
>> Sent: 16 September 2011 15:36
>> To: Adam Saltiel
>> Cc: Jukka Tuominen; <semantic-web@w3.org>
>> Subject: Re: New semantic web related project - Finndesign Liitin
>>
>>
>> This was sent without being quite finished. Better than being deleted -:)
>> I have read through your notes a couple of times. Your
>> distinction is between private and public.
>> I am also a psychoanalyst and that distinction is very important
>> in Psychoanalysis although, as the context is different, the
>> meaning is not the same.
>> I can't go into all of the issues I see about 'on line life' but
>> I think it is reasonable to emphasise that even for private,
>> public and lifetime the context is 'on line'. Specifically
>> reasons to share emerge in this context that are otherwise not
>> possible. We should also begin to understand - which is what
>> interests me - reasons not to share exist that range from
>> security, commercial, ordinary privacy, dislike of exploitation
>> and a mix of emotions and intentions that parallel repression but
>> are very context specific. (the Internet necessarily is highly
>> sensorially deprived. But note the abundant compensations for
>> this. The Internet is also highly addictive. Using this term informally.)
>> So an on line life captured over 50 years is not going to be my
>> life. But what will it be?
>> How might it help or hinder me?
>> I think, going back to my original email, I would expect it to
>> have influence over the availability of all information about me
>> and that is mine. That is to say the historical records of eg
>> Facebook and, to extend the point, the calculations Facebook
>> makes over data of which my data is a part.
>> This, of course, is a tall order.
>>
>> BR
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 16 Sep 2011, at 13:02, Adam Saltiel <adam.saltiel@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi
>> > Thanks for your notes.
>> > About your application.
>> > 1. How is it different from Nepomuk the semantic desktop which
>> Saurman et al have evolved into Refinder?
>> > 2. There is also Kiwi the semantic wiki project that is in
>> similar problem domain.
>> > Interesting tid bit.
>> > Reading your email google suggested a link to Jane Street. They
>> are a trading house. I urge you to look them up if you are
>> interested in the future of and application of functional programming.
>> > Still I find myself very unsure what is being proposed when you
>> say Protege may be wrapped in the interface or some other
>> program. I find it difficult to get my head round this in the
>> context of a human life span. Something that worked in Protege
>> time t1 will work at t2 because the very complete application
>> version including all configuration is made available? Or is
>> Protege an example of a helper program that enables Liitin? In
>> which case there is the other side of the same question.
>> > In short how big or small are we thinking?
>> > If we think on a smaller scale then the fluctuations that
>> happen across a life time will undo us. If we think large scale
>> then we are swamped by the size of something only distributed
>> computing power and storage can deal with.
>> > Or, again, we may assume the distributed framework and seek to
>> establish a set of conventions through metadata tagging as to
>> what passes my way I consider mine and what not mine.
>> > I'm sure I've misunderstood all along but if this is the picture
>> > 1. Why would I do this?
>> > 2. How to prevent claiming everything as mine well at least in
>> the domain of knowledge where claims of prior art and originality
>> are important?
>> > Perhaps the impulse not to share would be no greater than
>> today, though.
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On 15 Sep 2011, at 14:08, "Jukka Tuominen"
>> <jukka.tuominen@finndesign.fi> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Hi Adam,
>> >>
>> >> interesting thoughts and indeed difficult to have answered
>> 'correctly'. They
>> >> will eventually need to be answered, and are even likely to
>> change during
>> >> time and also geographically (culturally). Propably there will
>> need to be
>> >> global rules eventually, even lasting time.
>> >>
>> >> We have thought about these issues quite a lot (regarding
>> Liitin). Below are
>> >> some preliminary thoughts, feel free to comment on them to either
>> >> consolidate or to return for reconsideration.
>> >>
>> >> - Each Liitin user (= namespace owner) can store either
>> private or public
>> >> data. Organisations may also have (pseudo) namespaces,
>> behaving identically
>> >> but just more identifiable namespace name. You cannot
>> interfere with other
>> >> namespaces other than view/execute/'import' to your own
>> namespace in case
>> >> they are made public (= simple save operation)
>> >> - Format for Liitin object name is:  namespace:object-name
>> >>
>> >> A) Private data. This is considered as the user's private
>> property. It does
>> >> have all the same persistency properties as well, and the data
>> (and methods
>> >> among them) is supposed to follow you the whole life time. In
>> this sense, it
>> >> starts to resemble more personal memory rather than mere personal home
>> >> directory. This data could/should have strong protection (even
personal
>> >> encryption hidden from any system administration), and once you die it
>> >> remains protected (or erased) unless you have specifically exported
>> >> information. BTW, private data was considered before public
>> data as part of
>> >> "Personal User Interface".
>> >>
>> >> B) Public data (= not private to anybody) needs to be free and not
>> >> copyrighted once stored to Liitin (currently LGPL v3
>> considered). This is
>> >> extremely important, since there is not really a ownership concept in
>> >> Liitin. You may be the originator, or a contributor, and
>> similar things, but
>> >> in practise when you make any changes to public objects, you
>> always save
>> >> them to your own namespace. Therefore, the connection between
>> the namespace
>> >> and the object is very loose and should not be associated with
>> ownership.
>> >> Say, you correct a spelling mistake and save the change. Eventhough
all
>> >> public objects should be 'common property', there will be cases that
>> >> copyrights are violated or confidential information placed public by
>> >> mistake. There are in-built methods to deal with these
>> occasions. Naturally,
>> >> they may (intentionally) break persistency if these objects
>> are referred to
>> >> after this point of time.
>> >>
>> >> Generally, there's a pretty good analogy to publishing information in
>> >> newspaper, or carving information on pyramid walls.  It is public
>> >> information thereafter - it is very difficult to undo it
>> afterwards. "What
>> >> happends in Internet stays in Internet" :)
>> >>
>> >> br, jukka
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Adam Saltiel [mailto:adam.saltiel@gmail.com]
>> >>> Sent: 15 September 2011 14:47
>> >>> To: Jukka Tuominen
>> >>> Cc: <semantic-web@w3.org>
>> >>> Subject: Re: New semantic web related project - Finndesign Liitin
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> All my data. The issue is two fold. Who am I. What data is mine.
>> >>> Although I don't pretend to have an answer to the former I think
>> >>> that most people would agree
>> >>> 1. An answer to the later has bearing on the former.
>> >>> 2. The answer to the former in so far as it is manifest in
>> >>> behaviour has bearing on the later.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is
>> >>> 1. A loop
>> >>> 2. A subtle conundrum. If one influences the other what are the
>> >>> possibilities that control and therefore influence will be that
>> >>> of an agent not myself? But I said subtle. We shouldn't assume
>> >>> that is undesirable. I drive down the street where all the other
>> >>> vehicles ...
>> >>> 3. Raises the obvious issue of data ownership. What with Omniture
>> >>> and Google analytics and so. Even the raw legal issues are
>> >>> unclear, at least to me. For instance one might think that a web
>> >>> site displayed in your browser belongs to the web site
>> >>> owner/publisher. It does. And that the data you enter into a form
>> >>> belongs to? That is more complex.
>> >>> But one thing. Anonymised data conclusions drawn at a time which
>> >>> we don't have access to, may be the very thing we need for a
>> >>> coherent picture of where we were or are now w.r.t. our
>> intended activity.
>> >>> Personally I am very unhappy about the data matrix of social
>> >>> media but happier when I consider an intelligent environment.
>> >>> There are some complex issues here.
>> >>> Considering the huge amount of data and it's disparate origins I
>> >>> take it that your task is to mediate between sets. But note how a
>> >>> perfect memory or a memory of surprising detail (the past may be
>> >>> reinterpreted in the light of hitherto hidden information) holds
>> >>> it's own perils for human mortals. Not least that the aim of
>> >>> coherence and identity through longevity may be undermined by the
>> >>> mechanisms that attempt to establish this.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Best
>> >>>
>> >>> Adam
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>> On 13 Sep 2011, at 12:44, "Jukka Tuominen"
>> >>> <jukka.tuominen@finndesign.fi> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hi all!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'd like to introduce you to a project that you may find
>> interesting. It
>> >>>> didn't start as specifically semantic web related, but perhaps
>> >>> that's one of
>> >>>> the reasons that it may bring a new perspective to it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There are many aspects to the project, but related to semantic
>> >>> web I'd like
>> >>>> to bring forward a few characteristics that you may find of
>> particular
>> >>>> interest.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Whereas software and hardware platforms come and go frequently,
the
>> >>>> essence of knowledge and methods may last from generations to
>> >>> generations.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - To be able/willing to build on top of somebody else's work,
>> >>> you need to
>> >>>> trust its future existance and predictable behaviour.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - There are lots of great free software and utils out there
>> >>> even today, but
>> >>>> due to incompatibilities and overall complexity to setup a working
>> >>>> environment, they are often out of the reach of most of us. Or
>> >>> it's just not
>> >>>> worth the trouble. You'd rather contribute to your own field of
>> >>> expertise.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Our project Finndesign Liitin is addressing these issues in a
>> >>> new way, yet
>> >>>> trying to keep it very simple to the user. You pretty much
>> just walk/log
>> >>>> into a ready-made environment, and will have access to all
>> personal and
>> >>>> public data and methods in a compatible and persistent manner.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Please, have a look at the project page for details at
>> >>>> http://liitin.finndesign.fi
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Eventhough I'm very interested in things that semantic web is
>> >>> addressing, my
>> >>>> primary field of expertise is in user interface design
>> >>> (industrial design
>> >>>> education). Therefore I'd be very interested in your
>> >>> professional opinion on
>> >>>> how Liitin might be suitable for your needs, or how it may need to
be
>> >>>> tweaked in order to suit it better.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The project page may not cover all details, so I'd be glad answer
any
>> >>>> questions.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best regards,
>> >>>> Jukka Tuominen, Finndesign
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>>
>
>