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Re: Recipe for Shops: Showing up in Yahoo and in the Web of Data in One Turn

From: Benjamin Nowack <bnowack@semsol.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:12:30 +0200
To: Martin Hepp (UniBW) <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
Cc: semantic-web@w3c.org
Message-ID: <PM-GA.20090722191230.D4D36.2.1D@semsol.com>
On 22.07.2009 15:32:40, Martin Hepp (UniBW) wrote:
>Actually, I disagree completely.
>
>Conflating multiple resources under one URI is deadly, because it 
>compromises the later reuse and recombination of data.
unless there is sufficient overlap as in the vcard example?

>Making the business entity also an instance of vcard:VCard is only 
>because the upcoming vCard2006 cleansing is not yet available, in which 
>the domain of vcard:adr is likely to be changed from vcard:VCard to a 
>wider set of classes, because most locations, persons, or legal entities 
>can have addresses - not only via a vCard node. (**You** do have an 
>address, not your business card.).
Well, that's a pragmatic schema interpretation I agree with. But
you'll have to be fine with me adding vcard:rev to my gr:Business 
then, too, which contradicts your statement above.

>So again, this was only a work-around (initially introduced by Yahoo) to 
>make the whole thing fly now, not later. 
Wild agreement. I just wondered if these work-arounds won't 
automatically become common practice.

>Well, there is nothing I can do about that, it is simply an important 
>technical requirement.
>If you omit it, the content will no longer validate and data extraction 
>and reuse turns from a predictable computational operation into 
>probabilistic guesswork: it may work, or it may not.
Is that a Yahoo!ish restriction? AFAIK, the RDFa group has moved 
away from the DTD requirement, and xmlns can go anywhere.

>Note that Drupal now has a mode that activates automatic DOCTYPE 
>replacement for serving RDFa. More info at:
Yeah, I know, I think they even consider making the RDFa doctype
the default in D7 (brave folks).

>I think that at least such basic RDFa support will soon be a mandatory 
>feature for any CMS on the market.
Yes, probably. At least for some time ;) 

>Also note that a typical shop etc. may have just a few HTML templates 
>for e.g. the company and the product detail pages. Ten lines of 
>additional markup may be worth it if the actual content is generated 
>automatically from those templates.
True. I already find the updated example much more attractive.

>IMO, there is dangerous tendency in part of current Web of Data 
>research: After the frustration about the complexity (and limited 
>impact) of logic-centric work, many researchers now want to keep things 
>deadly simple. 
Can't say much here, I'm a developer, not a researcher. *I* think 
there is dangerous tendency in the RDF community to always think 
about researchers and/or in a researcher-centric way ;) 

>> Maybe drop some of the @typeofs which repeat the @rel values (e.g. 
>> as in
>>    <div rel="gr:hasOpeningHoursSpecification">
>>       <div typeof="gr:OpeningHoursSpecification">
>> ), 
>Maybe I did not get it, but I do not see a way how you can drop any of 
>those without compromising the data? The typeofs are important for 
>typing the nodes and the rels are important for typing the relationships.
Right, this was a secret rant about RDFa, just ignore it. I *think*
you can move the @typeof up to the @rel-containing node, though.
This might be more intuitive to people who are used to microformats
where you can bundle relations with containers to show their immediate
connection, e.g. as in <div class="lister vcard">...</div> to describe
the company associated with a listing. But it's less RDF/XML-ish, 
RDFers might prefer the nested divs.

>It is not about changing a few lines in an ongoing PhD project ;-). It 
>would be about changing a running system.
I guess the only chance to successfully change the schema would be
right now, but I can't judge if it's worth the hassle. And I'll stop 
annoying you now. Good luck with the Good Relations, it's clearly a 
cool effort!

Cheers,
Benji

>
>Best
>
>Martin
>
>> --
>> Benjamin Nowack
>> http://bnode.org/
>> http://semsol.com/
>>
>> On 21.07.2009 19:42:00, Martin Hepp (UniBW) wrote:
>>   
>>> Dear all:
>>>
>>> I just completed a recipe meant for larger audiences (Web developers,
>>> SEO companies) on how a business can enrich its pages using
>>> RDFa+GoodRelations so that the data
>>> - shows up in Yahoo AND
>>> - it at the same time useful for comprehensive RDF applications.
>>>
>>> The recipe is at
>>>
>>> http://tr.im/rAbN
>>>
>>> It tries to combine pure recipes from the RDF world with the "Web
>>> developer's" how-tos provided by Yahoo.
>>>
>>> Any feedback is very welcome.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Martin Hepp
>>>
>>>     
>>   
>
>-- 
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>martin hepp
>e-business & web science research group
>universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
>e-mail:  mhepp@computer.org
>phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
>fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
>www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>         http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>skype:   mfhepp 
>twitter: mfhepp
>
>Check out the GoodRelations vocabulary for E-Commerce on the Web of Data!
>========================================================================
>
>Webcast:
>http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/
>
>Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: 
>"Semantic Web-based E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
>http://tinyurl.com/semtech-hepp
>
>Tool for registering your business:
>http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/tools/goodrelations-annotator/
>
>Overview article on Semantic Universe:
>http://tinyurl.com/goodrelations-universe
>
>Project page and resources for developers:
>http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>
>Tutorial materials:
>Tutorial at ESWC 2009: The Web of Data for E-Commerce in One Day: A Hands-on
>Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey
>
>http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations_Tutorial_ESWC2009
>
>
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 22 July 2009 17:13:10 UTC

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