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Re: [ontolog-forum] Terminology Question concerning Web Architecture and LinkedData

From: Azamat Abdoullaev <abdoul@cytanet.com.cy>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:55:16 +0300
Message-ID: <000a01c7cd41$dd44a420$030aa8c0@az00evbfog6nhh>
To: "Pat Hayes" <phayes@ihmc.us>
Cc: <semantic-web@w3.org>, "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@ontolog.cim3.net>

How funny this academic world may be. The truth is ridiculed, the confusion 
is extolled.
In any case, i apologize for my good wishful thinking about you.

Azamat

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pat Hayes" <phayes@ihmc.us>
To: "Azamat" <abdoul@cytanet.com.cy>
Cc: "'SW-forum'" <semantic-web@w3.org>; "[ontolog-forum] " 
<ontolog-forum@ontolog.cim3.net>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Terminology Question concerning Web 
Architecture and LinkedData



>Rarely have i seen such obtusness. Pat has said many interesting things, 
>but
>this statement reflects the whole point of the Semantic Web. No Real
>Meanings, no Semantic Web, or  no  Universal Ontology, no Intelligent Web.
>That's it.

You were quoting a position which I was in that
very message holding up to ridicule. This is NOT
the whole point of the semantic web. On the
contrary; which is what my message was about.

Pat

>Azamat
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Frank Manola" <fmanola@acm.org>
>To: "Azamat" <abdoul@cytanet.com.cy>
>Cc: "'SW-forum'" <semantic-web@w3.org>; "[ontolog-forum] "
><ontolog-forum@ontolog.cim3.net>
>Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 10:24 PM
>Subject: Re: Terminology Question concerning Web Architecture and 
>LinkedData
>
>
>>  Rarely have I seen a better example of the dangers of quoting out of
>  > context.

Quite.

>  >
>>  --Frank
>>
>>  On Jul 21, 2007, at 2:31 PM, Azamat wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  "Formal meaning is just a mathematical curiosity and has nothing to
>>>  do with Real Meanings (the kind that really Matter in Human Discourse
>>>  in Society, or whatever), so whenever any formal inferences are done,
>>>  the formal conclusions lose all their Real Meaning and are just
>>>  mathematical curiosities of no real significance, devoid of any Real
>>>  Meaning content outside some narrow abstract mathematical 
>>> domain."----- 
>>>  Original Message ----- From: "Pat Hayes"  <phayes@ihmc.us>
>>>  To: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfps@research.bell-labs.com>
>>>  Cc: <chris@bizer.de>; <linking-open-data@simile.mit.edu>; <semantic-
>>>  web@w3.org>; <www-tag@w3.org>
>>>  Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 7:34 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: Terminology Question concerning Web Architecture and
>>>  LinkedData
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  From: noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
>>>>>  Subject: Re: Terminology Question concerning Web Architecture and
>>>>>  LinkedData
>>>>>  Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:55:54 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>>  [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>>   I believe, however, that what we're discussing here is not just 
>>>>>> any
>>>>>>  old
>>>>>>   RDF statment.  If I had made a statement that "the sky is  green",
>>>>>>  Tim
>>>>>>   might reasonable express the opinion "no, I think Noah has set  out 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>  false
>>>>>>   statement."  The case we're discussing is different, I think.   Tim
>>>>>>  is, I
>>>>>>   believe, responsible for the association between the URI
>>>>>>   http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card#i and a resource, or  we
>>>>>>  may
>>>>>>   assume for the sake of argument that W3C has delegated that
>>>>>>  responsibility
>>>>>>   to him.  Tim states that the resource so designated is himself, 
>>>>>> then
>>>>>>  he is
>>>>>>   not offering an opinion: he is stating a fact about the  resource
>>>>>>  that he
>>>>>>   has chosen to identify with this URI.  The dbpedia folks may
>>>>>>  similarly
>>>>>>   establish authoritative associations between the URIs they  control
>>>>>>  and
>>>>>>   resources.
>>>>>
>>>>>  [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>>   Noah
>>>>>
>>>>>  But what observable consequences come from this within a 
>>>>> computational
>>>>>  system?
>>>>>
>>>>>  Certainly statements like "the sky is green"
>>>>>
>>>>>  ex:sky ex:colour ex:green .
>>>>>
>>>>>  have consequences.  For example, if added to functionality of the
>>>>>  colour
>>>>>  propery and uniqueness of colour objects, it is inconsistent with 
>>>>> the
>>>>>  sky being blue.
>>>>>
>>>>>  However, what consequences can come from the association between  a 
>>>>> URI
>>>>>  and a (non-information) resource?  I can't think of any, and if 
>>>>> there
>>>>>  aren't any then what is the point of arguing about the status of 
>>>>> such
>>>>>  associations?
>>>>
>>>>  I can think of many of them. Of course, they may not be *logical*
>>>>  consequences. See
>>>>
>>>>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/
>>>>  0196.html
>>>>
>>>>  Pat
>>>>  --
>>>>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>  IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973   home
>>>>  40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416   office
>  >>> Pensacola (850)202 4440   fax
>>>>  FL 32502 (850)291 0667    cell
>>>>  phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us       http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973   home
40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416   office
Pensacola (850)202 4440   fax
FL 32502 (850)291 0667    cell
phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us       http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
Received on Monday, 23 July 2007 15:56:38 UTC

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