- From: Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com>
- Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 22:43:09 +0000
- To: Public Joint XSLT XQuery XPath <public-xsl-query@w3.org>
DRAFT XML Query/XSL WG Joint Teleconference #661 Agenda 2016-11-15
Andy will chair this meeting.
PLEASE SEND CORRECTIONS AND ADDITIONS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE SO A REVISED
AGENDA CAN BE PREPARED IN A TIMELY MANNER!
Changes in this agenda:
This week, I'd like us to work on the following items:
J4.2 (F&O)
J4.6 (Test suite)
Q2.3 (XQuery)
Key:
J = Joint Query/XSLT meeting;
Q = Query-only meeting
Teleconference connection details
---------------------------------
(Member only)
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-xsl-query/2015Sep/0014.html
SUMMARY OF DECISIONS
====================
Note to secretary: Please insert a summary of all decisions made during
this teleconference at this location in the minutes.
Decisions MUST be clear as to their complete intent. The subject of the
decision should *not* require dereferencing; it is most helpful if
agenda numbers and bug numbers are accompanied by their titles. If a
decision is recorded about the resolution of a bug, the decision must
state exactly what the resolution is (e.g., "Accept the solution in
comment #5", or "Replace the production for XXX with this: <new
production>", or the like. It should be possible to read a decision
months later and be certain what it meant and whether or not it was
properly applied.
NEW ACTION ITEMS
================
Note to secretary: Please insert all new action items assigned during
this teleconference at this location in the minutes.
Action items MUST make sense even when they are viewed standalone (that
is, not read in the context of the agenda item where they were
assigned). This explicitly requires that all referents (e.g., "this",
"that") be made clear. Action items such as "Ralph to resolve this
problem" are DISALLOWED. It takes a scribe only a few additional
minutes to ensure that action items are clear, while it takes the entire
WG considerable effort to constantly research the meaning of unclear
action items. The subject of the action item should *not* require
dereferencing; it is most helpful if agenda numbers and bug numbers are
accompanied by their titles.
ACTION A-661-01 Jonathan to rebuild XPath/XQuery specs using the HTML5 build route. ETA 2016-11-29.
ACTION A-661-02 Josh to rebuild the XQueryX specs using the HTML5 build route. ETA 2016-11-29.
ACTION A-661-03: (Bug 29951) MK to flesh out a proposal for fn:transform to drop the "saved" option and replace it with a new option whose value is a user-supplied post-processing function.
ACTION A-661-04 (Bug 29997) AB to fix up the dependencies on the fn:transform tests and if appropriate resubmit results.
(Done after the meeting – proposal is in bugzilla)
ACTION A-661-05 (Bug 29932) MK to investigate and report. The bug is apparently a duplicate of 29884 and possibly 29966.
ACTION A-661-06 (Bug 29949) OND to decide which approach to take and do it. Alternatives suggested include (a) adding a (rather specialized dependency) for these tests, or (b) dropping the tests, or (c) alternative results.
ACTION A-661-07 (Bug 29952) MK to investigate these tests.
ACTION A-661-08 (Bug 29965) OND to add a dependency on XSLT 3.0 to these tests.
ACTION A-661-09 (Bug 29959 – fn:put) JR: Amend XQ 3.1 requirements (changing the status of this requirement). (And while there under 2.4.4 collations, there is a misreference to fn:put()).
ACTION A-661-10 (Bug 29959 – fn:put) JR: In the XQuery 3.1 spec, get rid of the optional fn:put() feature
ACTION A-661-11 (Bug 29959 – fn:put) MK: Add reference to fn:put(), EXPath etc in a non-normative appendix.
===================================================
Joint XML Query Working Group and XSL Working Group
===================================================
J1. Administrative Items
J1.1 Selection of secretary(s)
Mike has been asked to take the minutes. O'Neil has been asked to stand by.
NOTE: The chair will confirm the secretary prior to the start of the
meeting.
Most recent secretaries (least-recent participants first):
----------------------------------------------------------
(This list identifies the most recent three occasions when each
participant acted as Secretary for the Task Force. The person whose
name is at the top of the list should plan to take the minutes at the
meeting identified by this agenda; if that person is unavailable, then
the job will fall to the next person on the list, etc.
Mike Kay - 2016-07-26, 2016-04-26, 2016-03-01
O'Neil Delpratt - 2016-09-06, 2016-04-19, 2016-02-02
Michael Sprbrg-McQn - 2016-09-27, 2016-06-07, 2016-02-09
Michael Dyck - 2016-10-04, 2016-06-14, 2016-03-08
Abel Braaksma - 2016-10-18, 2016-06-28
Liam Quin - 2016-10-25, 2016-09-13, 2016-05-03
Josh Spiegel - 2016-11-01, 2016-07-19, 2016-03-15
Jonathan Robie - 2016-11-08, 2016-07-05, 2016-04-12
J1.2 Call the Roll -- NOT DONE DURING TELECONFERENCE
Note to secretary: During the meeting, take a note of the Webex
participants, then list in the minutes those present and those who sent
regrets. All others will be presumed to have been absent without regrets.
Present:
Andy, Jonathan, Josh, Michael K, Liam, O'Neil, Abel
XML Query WG membership list:
http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=18797&order=org
XSL WG membership list:
http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=19552&order=org
Regrets:
Michael Sperberg-McQueen
J1.3 Approval of agenda
J1.3.1 Additions, deletions, or corrections?
§§ None
J1.4 Review of recent minutes and administrative items
J1.4.1 Minutes of meeting #660 (Jonathan)
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsl-query/2016Nov/0010.html
§§ Accepted
J1.5 Review of action items
NOTE: Please be prepared to respond quickly on your action items!
J1.5.1 Outstanding action items
ACTION A-655-06: Jonathan Robie to review the use of the verb "denote" in the
XPath and XQuery specs.
Status: Pending; ETA 2016-10-25
§§ Done (reviewed and decided to take no action)
ACTION A-657-12: ABr to create more tests for fn:transform, as he describes in bug 29834
Status: Pending; ETA not specified.
§§ ETA now 22 Nov 2016
ACTION A-658-01 Liam to review XDM
Status: Pending; ETA 2016-11-15
§§ Pending
ACTION A-658-02 Andy to review XDM
Status: Pending; ETA 2016-11-15
§§ DONE, found a few very minor issues and fixed them.
ACTION A-658-03 Josh to review XQuery 3.1
Status: Pending; ETA 2016-11-15
§§ Pending. Will need the holiday period to do this. ETA 2016-11-29
ACTION A-658-07 Liam to review MIME type registration for XQuery 3.1
Status: Pending; ETA not specified.
ACTION A-659-04 Mike to review bug 29789.
Status: Pending; ETA 2016-11-15
§§ Pending. ETA 2016-11-22.
ACTION A-660-01: Jonathan to review Josh's resolution to bug 29858.
Status: Pending; ETA 2016-11-15
§§ DONE.
ACTION A-660-02: Jonathan to add resolution of Bug 29975 to XQuery / XPath.
Status: Pending; ETA not specified.
§§ DONE.
ACTION A-660-03: Mike to add resolution of Bug 29975 to XSLT.
Status: Pending; ETA not specified.
§§ DONE.
ACTION A-660-06: Jonathan, Andy, Josh to ensure that their documents build with the new stylesheets.
Status: Pending; ETA not specified.
§§ Some specs done, others not yet started. ETA 2016-11-29.
§§ Split into two actions one for Jonathan, one for Josh. ETA 2016-11-29 for both.
J1.5.2 Completed action items
ACTION A-655-05: Jonathan Robie to make a proposal to resolve bug 29858 "Named
Function References - context information".
Status: Closed; Actioned by Josh
ACTION A-659-05 Mike and O'Neil to review to review the tests that aren't currently being passed and establish the reasons.
Status: Closed; See
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsl-query/2016Nov/0004.html
ACTION A-660-04: Mike to add a note to F&O to explain that the outermost element of fn:analyze string allows mixed content. See Bug 29976.
Status: Closed; See
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29976#c4
ACTION A-660-05: Mike to modify stylesheets to produce HTML5 for the XSLT spec and notify other editors.
Status: Closed; See
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsl-query/2016Nov/0008.html
ACTION A-660-07: Jonathan to kick off an email discussion on Bug 29959, trying to create a proposal for fn:put().
Status: Closed; See
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-xsl-query/2016Nov/0002.html
ACTION A-660-08:: mdyck to incorporate resolution of Bug 29989 in the grammar.
Status: Closed; See
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsl-query/2016Nov/0014.html
J1.6 Update on related activities
J1.6.1 Update on XSLT WG activities (Sharon, MikeK)
§§ MK mentioned syntax highlighting in the XSLT 3.0 spec for XML/XSLT examples; the same technology (xmlspectrum) is also capable of XPath/XQuery highlighting.
J1.6.2 Update on EXPath/EXQuery CG activities (Mike)
No report.
J1.7 Future Meetings
J1.7.1 QT Meeting Schedule
[V45] Joint XML Query/XSL WG meeting schedule
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-xsl-query/2016Jul/0003.html
Meeting for 22 November in CANCELLED.
J1.7.2 Future F2F Meetings
J1.7.2.1 Other future F2F meetings
(none)
J2. Documents For Review
(none)
J3. Maintenance Issues
J3.0 The XML Query WG and XSLT WG do not intend to maintains specs
earlier than the 3.0 suite of documents; when the 3.1 suite reaches
Recommendation, maintenance of the 3.0 documents will be terminated.
This agenda item is reserved for reporting errors and other problems
reported against the 3.0 (later, 3.1) suite of specifications.
J3.0.1 Concerns raised by the XSLT working group in regards to potential
completion delays of XSLT 3.0 if XPath 3.0 is made obsoleted by 3.1
Status: Pending the outcome of Abel's review of 3.0 bugs/errata.
Any change to the status of the 3.0 specs requires explicit XSL WG
consultation.
J3.1 Bugzilla Bugs filed against the 3.0 suite of joint XML Query WG and
XSLT WG documents
(none)
J4. Active Specification Development
** Note: Full Text 3.1 has been removed from the WG agenda.
If, in the future, there is sufficient interest (i.e. at least two
independent participants to develop the spec and implementations),
then this can be brought back on the agenda.
J4.1 Data Model 3.1 (Andy)
J4.1.0 Internal working draft
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xpath-datamodel-31/html/Overview.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xpath-datamodel-31/html/Overview-diff.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xpath-datamodel-31/src/changes.txt
(none)
J4.2 Functions and Operators 3.1 (Mike Kay)
J4.2.0 Internal working draft
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xpath-functions-31/html/Overview.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xpath-functions-31/html/Overview-diff.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xpath-functions-31/src/changes.txt
J4.2.1 Bug 29951 - [FO31] fn-transform "saved"
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29951
Status: Ready to discuss; See
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-xsl-query/2016Nov/0002.html
et seq.
§§ MK suggests dropping or demoting the "saved" option. Possibility of providing a HOF interface – user supplies a function which is called to dispose of secondary result documents, this function could for example call the EXPath file:write() function but that would be outside our scope.
§§ JS this still essentially implies support for side-effects.
§§ AB there are two things you could do with this: you could implement the function to return its input, we could define it as a post-processing function which can have side-effects but we don't want to know anything about that as far as the spec is concerned.
§§ AB points out that we can't prevent the call on fn:transform having side-effects anyway.
ACTION A-661-03: (Bug 29951) MK to flesh out a proposal for fn:transform to drop the "saved" option and replace it with a new option whose value is a user-supplied post-processing function.
(Done after the meeting – proposal is in bugzilla)
J4.3 Serialization 3.1 (Michael Sperberg-McQueen, Andy)
J4.3.0 Internal working draft
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xslt-xquery-serialization-31/html/Overview.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xslt-xquery-serialization-31/html/Overview-diff.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xslt-xquery-serialization-31/src/changes.txt
(none)
J4.4 XPath 3.1 (Jonathan)
J4.4.0 Internal working draft
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/html/xpath-31.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/html/xpath-31-diff.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/src/changes.txt
(none)
J4.5 Grammar Test Applets (Michael Dyck)
(none)
J4.6 QT3 test suite (O'Neil)
J4.6.1 Status report on test suite, harness, tools
§§ Discussion on reporting results.
§§ MK we should focus on passes rather than fails; the aim is to show that all features are implementable, not to show that the implementations are complete.
§§ MK spoke to his message https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsl-query/2016Nov/0005.html emphasising that the areas where we fell short of 100% coverage could be justified in a director's call because the features were all there for a good reason and the reasons for lack of implementation were justifiable.
J4.6.2 Status of 3.1 tests results
Status: Currently five implementers submitted results
J4.6.3 Review test bugs
29997 – if tests aren't dependent on XQ then we should remove the dependency.
ACTION A-661-04 (Bug 29997) AB to fix up the dependencies on the fn:transform tests and if appropriate resubmit results.
29789 – MK has an action to review this.
29884 – trivial ACTION O'Neil to mark it as a duplicate of 29932. Done during the meeting.
29932 – ACTION A-661-05 (Bug 29932) MK to investigate and report. The bug is apparently a duplicate of 29884 and possibly 29966.
29949 – MK suggests adding a (rather specialised) dependency. Alternative is to drop the tests. ACTION A-661-06 OND to decide which approach to take and do it.
29952 – ACTION A-661-07 MK to investigate these tests.
29965 – ACTION A-661-08 OND to add dependency on XSLT 3.0.
29966 – Are these actually the same tests as 29932 / 29884 under a new name?
J5. Progression of Work
J5.1 XSLT 3.0, XQuery 3.1, XQueryX 3.1, XPath 3.1, XDM 3.1, F&O 3.1,
Serialization 3.1
J5.1.1 Current status
* In Candidate Recommendation; awaiting implementation reports
* Potential coordination of dates with XSLT 3.0
J5.1.2 Dependencies inhibiting progression
* Closing any significant gaps in the test suite
- Visualisation of this needs attention
* Detailed review of specifications by WG
Participant assigned to each document for detailed review
- XDM 3.1 - Liam/Andy
- XPath 3.1 - Mike Kay - completed
- F&O 3.1 - Abel - completed
- Serialization 3.1 - Tim - completed
- XQuery 3.1 - Josh
- XQueryX 3.1 - Andy - completed
* Formal response to all comments, responses accepted by commenters
* PR Transition Request and authorization, PR pub request
* REC Transition Request and authorization, REC pub request
J5.2 Update 3.0
J5.2.1 Current Status
* In Last Call Working Draft
At XML Prague, Liam talked to a few people about XQuery Update but found no great enthusiasm for doing the work. We cannot progress without plans for a test suite and potential implementers. The WG needs to decide what to do with this spec.
Status: Ready to discuss
J5.2.2 Require owner of XQUF 3.0 Test Suite
J5.2.3 Dependencies inhibiting progression
* CR Transition Request and authorization, CR pub request
* Completion of test suite minimum-required-to-declare-victory
* Sufficient implementation experience and reports thereof
* Formal response to all comments, responses accepted by commenters
* PR Transition Request and authorization, PR pub request
* REC Transition Request and authorization, REC pub request
J6. Any other business
J6.1 Consideration of future work
J6.1.1 QT 3.2
The WGs decided that we will finish the 3.1 documents presently under way,
but undertake no new work. Maintenance work should be planned upon for a
period of time after finishing the specifications.
J6.1.2 FT 3.1
Currently inadequate interest and resources
J6.1.3 Update 3.1
Currently inadequate interest and resources
J7. Adjourn
=======================
XML Query Working Group
=======================
Q1. The XML Query WG does not intend to maintains specs earlier than the
3.0 suite of documents; when the 3.1 suite reaches Recommendation,
maintenance of the 3.0 documents will be terminated.
Q1.0 This agenda item is reserved for reporting errors and other
problems reported against the 3.0 (later, 3.1) XML Query WG suite of
specifications.
Q1.1 Bugzilla Bugs filed against the 3.0 suite of XML Query WG documents
(none)
Q2. Active Specification Development
Q2.1 XQuery Update Facility 3.0 (John)
Q2.1.0 Internal working draft
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-update-30/html/Overview.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-update-30/html/Overview-diff.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-update-30/src/changes.txt
* The WG needs to obtain implementation experience with this document.
Q2.2 XQuery Update Facility 3.0 Requirements and Use Cases (Andy)
See
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/requirements/xquery-update-30/html/Overview.html
* The WGs need to be certain that this document is completed
(red/yellow/green bullets on requirements, all the use cases intended to
be published) and a decision made to advance it to WG Note.
Q2.3 XQuery 3.1 (Jonathan)
Q2.3.0 Internal working draft
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/html/xquery-31.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/html/xquery-31-diff.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/src/changes.txt
Q2.3.1 Bug 29959 - [xq31] fn:put()
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29959
Status: Ready to discuss
§§ Discussion in bugzilla.
§§ Noted that there is little prospect of Update 3.0 or 3.1 moving forward.
§§ JR thinks it's unacceptable not to provide the functionality.
§§ AC but you can't do this in SQL?
§§ JS it's a little academic because implementations that already provide fn:put() will continue to do so. And it's not true that you can't return multiple documents because a query can return a map from URIs to documents for example.
§§ MK points out that the EXPath File module already provides more capability than fn:put() by allowing writing of text and binary files as well as XML.
§§ JS suggests we solve the "requirements" problem by mentioning fn:put() and EXPath File as possible workarounds but say we can't refer to these normatively because of the status of the documents at the time of publication.
§§ LQ: this is a substantive change to the spec. If we're claiming the requirement has been met we should show how and have tests. Wonders whether we need to publish another CR.
§§ JS: believes we are not claiming the requirement is met (the dot will be red).
§§ AC: points out that it's a "may" in the requirements, not a "must".
DECISION:
• Add statement to requirements document to point to fn:put and EXPath file as "partial solutions" to the requirement even though neither can be normative.
• Add statement to F+O referencing EXPath and/or fn:put() non-normatively.
ACTION
ACTION A-661-09 JR: Amend XQ 3.1 requirements (changing the status of this requirement). (And while there under 2.4.4 collations, there is a misreference to fn:put()).
ACTION A-661-10 JR: In the XQuery 3.1 spec, get rid of the optional fn:put() feature
ACTION A-661-11 MK: Add reference to fn:put(), EXPath etc in a non-normative appendix.
Q2.4 XQueryX 3.1 (Josh)
Q2.4.0 Internal working draft
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xqueryx-31/html/Overview.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xqueryx-31/html/Overview-diff.html
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xqueryx-31/src/changes.txt
(none)
Q3. Test Suite Development
Q3.1 Update Facility 3.0 Test Suite (????)
* Need test suite developer/manager
* Need tests
Q4. Any other business
Q5. Adjourn
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Received on Tuesday, 15 November 2016 22:43:40 UTC