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[fwd] Fw: Draft minutes 2007-09-04 (from: brich@us.ibm.com)

From: Thomas Roessler <tlr@w3.org>
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 10:48:57 +0200
To: public-xmlsec-maintwg@w3.org
Message-ID: <20070908084857.GF15181@raktajino.does-not-exist.org>

Sorry for the delay.  Much of it is due to problems with the mailing
list set-up that kept Bruce from posting to the list.  These are now
fixed.

These minutes are also visible online:

  http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes

Cheers,
-- 
Thomas Roessler, W3C  <tlr@w3.org>



----- Forwarded message from Bruce Rich <brich@us.ibm.com> -----

From: Bruce Rich <brich@us.ibm.com>
To: "Hirsch, Frederick" <frederick.hirsch@nokia.com>,
	"Roessler, Thomas" <tlr@w3c.org>
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:41:09 -0600
Subject: Fw: Draft minutes 2007-09-04
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   [1]W3C

                                   - DRAFT -

           XML Security Specifications Maintenance WG Conference Call

4 Sep 2007

   [2]Agenda

   See also: [3]IRC log

Attendees

   Present
          Frederick Hirsch
          Sean Mullan
          Bruce Rich
          Thomas Roessler
          Hal Lockhart
          Juan Carlos Cruellas
          Konrad Lanz

   Regrets
          Rob Miller, Phill Hallam-Baker

   Chair
          Frederick Hirsch

   Scribe
          Thomas Roessler, Bruce Rich

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]action item review
         2. [6]workshop
         3. [7]test cases / interop
         4. [8]interop testcases
         5. [9]best practices
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________________

   <rdmiller> I will not be able to attend the call today. Sorry for the
   late notice.

   <fjh> Agenda:
   [11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Aug/0
   066.html

   <fjh> Agenda:
   [12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Aug/0
   066.html

   <tlr> ScribeNick: tlr

   RESOLUTION: last week's minutes approved,
   [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Aug/0
   016.html

action item review

   jcc: test cases for scheme-based xpointers ??
   ... section 3.5 ...

   <fjh> looking at this mail -
   [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Jul/0
   054.html

   jcc: document contains comments ...
   ... test case described about using xpointers and barenames ...
   ... thought this action was completed ...

   <scribe> ScribeNick: brich

   <klanz2> JC are you talking about this:
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.
   html#TestCases-SchemaBasedXPointers

   <tlr> thanks klanz for the pointer, I was looking for that

   <jcc> The signature will be an enveloping signature. The enveloped
   document will be the one shown at the begininning of this section. The
   value of the URI attribute will be "xpointer(id("e1ID"))"

   <tlr> +1 to closing this action

   <tlr> brich, you don't need to use the IRC nick name, something that
   matches the person should work.

   <trackbot-ng> Sorry... I don't know how to close ACTION yet

   action 68 close

   ACTION 68 closed

   ACTION-71 open

   ACTION-68 closed

   <trackbot-ng> Sorry... I don't know how to close ACTION yet

   <fjh> action 68 closed

   <fjh> action 75 done, 3.6.1

   <jcc> 3.6.1 Test cases on differences identified in RFC 2253 and RFC
   4514

   <scribe> ACTION: 68 close [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - 68

   <tlr>
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.
   html#TestCases-DistinguishedName-RFC2253-RFC4514

   <tlr> brich, if you start with "ACTION: ", you create a new action
   item, which in this case was on 68 to close :)

   <fjh> action 74 open

   <klanz2> 82, 83 keep open ...

   ACTION 75 closed

   <klanz2> 82, 83 keep open ...

   ACTION 84 closed

   <fjh> action 84 was for minuts of 21 AUG

   <klanz2> can you excuse me for 3 minutes, I'll be right back

   ACTION 85 closed

   ACTION 86 closed

workshop

   <klanz2> back

   invitations sent, not much in the way of responses yet

   <tlr> nothing else to add...

   <klanz2> I like the term freefall ;-)

   interop format question

   looking for some structure, but relatively free-form so far

   <fjh> will want to produce interop test matrix summarizing results,
   also summarize issues

test cases / interop

interop testcases

   simple testcases for c14n11 being selected (possibly to go to xml core)

   <fjh> +1 to separate c14n11 alone cases

   so some for just c14n11, some for dsig

   <klanz2>
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.
   html

   <fjh> klanz2: created stand alone test case directories, also updated
   test cases document accordingly

   <tlr> I'd suggest the public list for technical discussion.

   <fjh> +1 to public list

   <fjh> c14n11 cases
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.
   html#TestCases-Can-XMLAttributes

   <klanz2>
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.
   html#XMLLANG

   <fjh> ... links in table lead to source documents

   <fjh> ... tests in 3.2 can also be done in 3.3 in context of signature
   as well

   klanz2: will continue to update document listed in link above

   <fjh> sean: generated sigs for xml:lang, xml:id and xml:space

   <sean> zakim. mute me

   klanz2: suggest report to core will just be c14n11, not dsig

   tlr: original issues were raised in context of dsig, not c14n alone

   <fjh> tlr: dealing with partial document c14N11 seems to be use case
   within dsig context

   <tlr> I'm not feeling strongly either way.

   <tlr> I won't keep anybody from doing more test cases :)

   <fjh> jcc: in favor of keeping stand alone c14n11 test cases

   <fjh> ... useful to have independent test cases, easier to detect
   issues

   <fjh> klanz2: dom uses c14n

   <Zakim> Thomas, you wanted to ask whether we're sure everybody has the
   necessary APIs to test the standalone document subset cases

   <sean> I don't think it should be a requirement to pass standalone c14n
   cases

   <fjh> +1 to standalone c14n11 use cases, if feasible and practical to
   do

   <fjh> sean: ok for standalone cases, but should not be required test
   matrix case

   <fjh> brich: +1 to sean, useful to have, e.g. for debugging, but not a
   requirement

   tlr: what will the output from the interop look like, want matchup in
   functions tested

   klanz2: separation of testcases allows reporting of subset c14n to
   interested parties

   tlr: +1 to have two ways to test, one for c14n and one in a dsig env.

   <fjh> klanz2: single table entry that has both c14n11 standalone and
   sig with same input

   <tlr> "do it" also meaning to have the linked test cases

   <tlr> ACTION: klanz2 to document approach to subset expressions in a
   README file along with the test cases [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-87 - Document approach to subset
   expressions in a README file along with the test cases [on Konrad Lanz
   - due 2007-09-11].

   frederick: question about value of negative testcases

   <sean> +1 to negative test cases

   <klanz2>
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.
   html#TestCases.xmldsig_c14n11

   <fjh> klanz: what about implementation that always returns true for all
   sigs

   <fjh> hal: but produce sig value...

   <fjh> tlr: do we need test case to discern c14n10 and c14n11
   implementations, not negative case per se

   <tlr> the hashing / looking at output documents obviates need for
   negative test cases.

   <tlr> We just don't want to have a test suite that yes(1) can pass

   <fjh> note - issue for discern c14n10 and c14n11

   <klanz2> ;-)

   <fjh> ACTION: jcc to remove negative test cases from test case
   document, save in repository in new document [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-88 - Remove negative test cases from test
   case document, save in repository in new document [on Juan Carlos
   Cruellas - due 2007-09-11].

   <klanz2> What about existing, test cases? Merlin an so on ...

   <klanz2> @brich: [24]http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/c14n11/

   <klanz2> [25]http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmldsig/c14n11/

   sean: do we send out reminder about interop?

   fjh: need stable draft of interop doc by next week

   klanz2: what IPR applies to contributed testcases? can we unpack zip?

   <fjh> ACTION: tlr to review whether original XML Sig test cases can be
   used for derivative work (IPR etc), e.g. merlin.zip [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-89 - Review whether original XML Sig test
   cases can be used for derivative work (IPR etc), e.g. merlin.zip [on
   Thomas Roessler - due 2007-09-11].

   <klanz2> sorry, I was dropped, Ihate my viop client ;-(

   <tlr> [27]http://www.w3.org/2004/10/27-testcases.html

   <klanz2> back

   fjh: are we going to remove duplicate tests?

   <fjh> acck

   <fjh> ac

   sean: not worth work to remove

best practices

   fjh: trying to use wiki for this pupose, lacks weight of a document
   ... suggest continued use of wiki, pending different decision

   <klanz2> bye bye

   <jcc> exit

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: 68 close [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: jcc to remove negative test cases from test case
   document, save in repository in new document [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: klanz2 to document approach to subset expressions in a
   README file along with the test cases [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: tlr to review whether original XML Sig test cases can be
   used for derivative work (IPR etc), e.g. merlin.zip [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action04]

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [32]scribe.perl version 1.128
    ([33]CVS log)
    $Date: 2007/09/04 14:28:04 $

References

   1. http://www.w3.org/
   2. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Aug/0066.html
   3. http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-irc
   4. file://localhost/home/roessler/.tmp/04-xmlsec-minutes_1_.html#agenda
   5. file://localhost/home/roessler/.tmp/04-xmlsec-minutes_1_.html#item01
   6. file://localhost/home/roessler/.tmp/04-xmlsec-minutes_1_.html#item02
   7. file://localhost/home/roessler/.tmp/04-xmlsec-minutes_1_.html#item03
   8. file://localhost/home/roessler/.tmp/04-xmlsec-minutes_1_.html#item04
   9. file://localhost/home/roessler/.tmp/04-xmlsec-minutes_1_.html#item05
  10. file://localhost/home/roessler/.tmp/04-xmlsec-minutes_1_.html#ActionSummary
  11. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Aug/0066.html
  12. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Aug/0066.html
  13. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Aug/0016.html
  14. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Jul/0054.html
  15. http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html#TestCases-SchemaBasedXPointers
  16. http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action01
  17. http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html#TestCases-DistinguishedName-RFC2253-RFC4514
  18. http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html
  19. http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html#TestCases-Can-XMLAttributes
  20. http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html#XMLLANG
  21. http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action02
  22. http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html#TestCases.xmldsig_c14n11
  23. http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action03
  24. http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/c14n11/
  25. http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmldsig/c14n11/
  26. http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action04
  27. http://www.w3.org/2004/10/27-testcases.html
  28. http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action01
  29. http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action03
  30. http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action02
  31. http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html#action04
  32. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
  33. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/


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