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RE: use cases

From: Rushforth, Peter <Peter.Rushforth@NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca>
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 19:54:34 +0000
To: David Lee <David.Lee@marklogic.com>, David Carlisle <davidc@nag.co.uk>, "public-xmlhypermedia@w3.org" <public-xmlhypermedia@w3.org>
Message-ID: <1CD55F04538DEA4F85F3ADF7745464AF1AE32F79@S-BSC-MBX4.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca>
David,

Having substantially re-written the use case here to not refer to the XML namespace 

http://www.w3.org/community/xmlhypermedia/wiki/Distributed_extensibility_/_automatic_namespaces

(I may have misinterpreted your comment below), and now reviewing it, I actually
don't think that what is outlined there would work with just *any* namespace:
the namespace has to be special and unique (http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace) and has to 'go no further' ie it refers to iteself at the top of the hierarchy.

To try to clarify, I tried to put the hypermedia vowels in just any namespace (like Xlink does).  So far, no problem.

However, when I refer to the autonamespace resource representation from the root element of the
ScotchML representation, like this:

<SingleMalts href="http://scotch.org/ScotchML" rel="ns" type="application/namespaces+xml">

I now don't believe that reference is enough to tell the client that href means foo:href, for two
reasons.

1) the uri http://scotch.org/ScotchML is not the URI of the definition namespace of foo:href, so
in and of itself is not enough to tell the client that href means 
{http://example.com/namespaces/hypermedia}href (Clark notation for foo:href).  So, this relies on the
assumption/common knowledge that href means foo:href, which might not be valid because it might actually be mapped to something else in the namespace representation actually at http://scotch.org/ScotchML.  

2) Having @rel="ns" and @type="application/namespaces+xml" would still be necessary for the XML namespace
for the reason that the resource at http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace

In short, I'm going to change the example back to use http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace.

David C.:
I still don't see where I'm putting attributes into a namespace where they don't have one to begin with.

Any comments from the hypermedia side of the house appreciated too.

Cheers,
Peter


> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Lee [mailto:David.Lee@marklogic.com] 
> Sent: August 19, 2012 11:15
> To: David Carlisle; public-xmlhypermedia@w3.org
> Subject: RE: use cases
> 
> My first comment would be to not bundle the hypermedia spec 
> with a requirement to run on MicroXML.
> We can always do a later spec which builds on the semantics 
> of the first but adjusts it to MicroXML restrictions.
> I would go first with using namespaces like most other add-in 
> vocabularies with XML do.
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> David Lee
> Lead Engineer
> MarkLogic Corporation
> dlee@marklogic.com
> Phone: +1 650-287-2531
> Cell:  +1 812-630-7622
> www.marklogic.com
> 
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> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Carlisle [mailto:davidc@nag.co.uk]
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 6:50 AM
> To: public-xmlhypermedia@w3.org
> Subject: Re: use cases
> 
> On 19/08/2012 11:27, Rushforth, Peter wrote:
> > Liam, David(s),
> >
> > I was hoping for some comments on this idea, which seems especially 
> > topical given the preference for the MicroXML CG to drop all 
> > colon-names.
> >
> > In particular, the concept of a 'virtual' link on say the document 
> > node might be a data model issue.  Is this conceivable?  My 
> > perspective is you can pretty much declare the semantics 
> you want when 
> > you define a media type.  But if it is theoretically 
> incompatible with 
> > the data model, maybe that presents a problem :-).
> >
> > In short, for others who might not want to read Liam's full 
> paper, by 
> > combining a new XML media type with generic, XML web-style links
> > + automatic namespaces, one can get rid of colon names without
> > getting rid of the benefits of namespaces.
> >
> > Thanks Peter ________________________________________ From:
> > Rushforth, Peter [Peter.Rushforth@NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca] Sent: August 2,
> > 2012 1:03 PM To: public-xmlhypermedia@w3.org Subject: use cases
> >
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > I've added more beef to the use cases for automatic namespaces and 
> > "NeoXML".
> >
> > Please have a look and let me know if there are details 
> that could be 
> > improved.  I seem to be working in a layered fashion, but we can 
> > always go back and amplify something if it does not support 
> the layer 
> > above.  I hope this will help build the case for each and 
> every vowel 
> > proposed.
> >
> > So first read automatic namespaces, then read NeoXML:
> >
> > 
> http://www.w3.org/community/xmlhypermedia/wiki/Distributed_extensibili
> > ty_/_automatic_namespaces
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.w3.org/community/xmlhypermedia/wiki/NeoXML_/_NanoXML
> >
> > Send comments back here.
> >
> > Thanks Peter
> >
> >
> 
> 
> I must be missing something because I don't understand this at all.
> If a system can be configured to understand
> 
> rel="ns" href="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"
> 
> Then it could be configured to understand href attributes 
> generally, so presumably it could be similarly configured to 
> understand any other hypertext related attributes such as 
> src, it wouldn't really need the namespace mechanism would it?
> 
> In your automatic namespace document you appear to be 
> assigning namespaces to uprefixed attributes so this would 
> mean the documents were not expressible in xml 1.0 + 
> Namesapces. That isn't necessarily bad but it ought to be 
> highlighted if it is true.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
Received on Thursday, 23 August 2012 19:55:09 GMT

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