W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-xmlhypermedia@w3.org > August 2012

RE: use cases

From: Rushforth, Peter <Peter.Rushforth@NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 10:10:17 +0000
To: David Lee <David.Lee@marklogic.com>, David Carlisle <davidc@nag.co.uk>, "public-xmlhypermedia@w3.org" <public-xmlhypermedia@w3.org>
Message-ID: <1CD55F04538DEA4F85F3ADF7745464AF1AE2FDAB@S-BSC-MBX4.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca>
Hi David,

>My first comment would be to not bundle the hypermedia spec with a requirement to run on MicroXML.

I avoided that by calling the example NeoXML, which I like the ring of better anyway.   The important point is that a new media type registration which sub-classes an enhanced XML could immediately benefit from the addition of the hypermedia vowels.

>I would go first with using namespaces like most other add-in vocabularies with XML do.

I agree that use case needs to be separately addressed, but the no-namespace use case is important and so is called out by a separately layered-on use case.  Maybe the layering is not clear enough?  ie. the auto-namespaces use case could be achieved with a regular namespace-based set of hypermedia vowels, but to unlock the full benefit of hypermedia for the general use case of xml, they would have to be in the xml namespace.

From: David Lee [David.Lee@marklogic.com]
Sent: August 19, 2012 11:15 AM
To: David Carlisle; public-xmlhypermedia@w3.org
Subject: RE: use cases

My first comment would be to not bundle the hypermedia spec with a requirement to run on MicroXML.
We can always do a later spec which builds on the semantics of the first but adjusts it to MicroXML restrictions.
I would go first with using namespaces like most other add-in vocabularies with XML do.

David Lee
Lead Engineer
MarkLogic Corporation
Phone: +1 650-287-2531
Cell:  +1 812-630-7622

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-----Original Message-----
From: David Carlisle [mailto:davidc@nag.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 6:50 AM
To: public-xmlhypermedia@w3.org
Subject: Re: use cases

On 19/08/2012 11:27, Rushforth, Peter wrote:
> Liam, David(s),
> I was hoping for some comments on this idea, which seems especially
> topical given the preference for the MicroXML CG to drop all
> colon-names.
> In particular, the concept of a 'virtual' link on say the document
> node might be a data model issue.  Is this conceivable?  My
> perspective is you can pretty much declare the semantics you want
> when you define a media type.  But if it is theoretically
> incompatible with the data model, maybe that presents a problem :-).
> In short, for others who might not want to read Liam's full paper,
> by combining a new XML media type with generic, XML web-style links
> + automatic namespaces, one can get rid of colon names without
> getting rid of the benefits of namespaces.
> Thanks Peter ________________________________________ From:
> Rushforth, Peter [Peter.Rushforth@NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca] Sent: August 2,
> 2012 1:03 PM To: public-xmlhypermedia@w3.org Subject: use cases
> Hi Folks,
> I've added more beef to the use cases for automatic namespaces and
> "NeoXML".
> Please have a look and let me know if there are details that could
> be improved.  I seem to be working in a layered fashion, but we can
> always go back and amplify something if it does not support the
> layer above.  I hope this will help build the case for each and every
> vowel proposed.
> So first read automatic namespaces, then read NeoXML:
> http://www.w3.org/community/xmlhypermedia/wiki/Distributed_extensibility_/_automatic_namespaces
> Send comments back here.
> Thanks Peter

I must be missing something because I don't understand this at all.
If a system can be configured to understand

rel="ns" href="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"

Then it could be configured to understand href attributes generally, so
presumably it could be similarly configured to understand any other
hypertext related attributes such as src, it wouldn't really need the
namespace mechanism would it?

In your automatic namespace document you appear to be assigning
namespaces to uprefixed attributes so this would mean the
documents were not expressible in xml 1.0 + Namesapces. That isn't
necessarily bad but it ought to be highlighted if it is true.

Received on Monday, 20 August 2012 10:10:45 UTC

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