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XProc Minutes 7 January 2015

From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 08:40:33 -0800
To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <87d26qr1by.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes

[1]W3C

                                - DRAFT -

                         XML Processing Model WG

Meeting 262, 07 Jan 2015

   [2]Agenda

   See also: [3]IRC log

Attendees

   Present
           Norm, Jim, Henry, Alex, Loren

   Regrets

   Chair
           Norm

   Scribe
           Norm

Contents

     * [4]Topics

         1. [5]Accept this agenda?
         2. [6]Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
         3. [7]Next meeting
         4. [8]Review of open action items
         5. [9]Reviewing binary support
         6. [10]Any other business?

     * [11]Summary of Action Items

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Accept this agenda?

   -> [12]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-agenda

   Accepted.

  Accept minutes from the previous meeting?

   -> [13]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2014/12/10-minutes

   Accepted.

  Next meeting

   Proposed: 14 January 2015

   No regrets heard.

  Review of open action items

   Alex reports no progress on his items.

   Jim reports no progress on his items.

  Reviewing binary support

   Norm reviews the idea of having "XML stub documents" to represent non-XML
   documents in the pipeline.

   Jim: What about the base URI?

   <alexmilowski> [14]http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-datamodel/#DocumentNode

   Norm: It is what it is.

   Alex: I think maybe we could use a stub "XDM Document" to represent
   binaries.
   ... If you access the children you get a base64 encoded representation or
   a JSON blob or some such.
   ... That would leave open the possibility of unification later; you'd
   still have the concept of a document node but you'd have other kinds of
   children.
   ... JSON could be represented with semi-structured data.
   ... But that's the future, all we want today is properties, right?

   Norm: Yes.

   Jim: Is this possibly a little bit too much sausage making. From a
   first-principles point of view, we're allowing non-XML documents to flow.
   ... From a pipeline author's point of view, they're just going to get a
   binary document.
   ... To me the simplest thing is a binary flowing through.

   <alexmilowski> What is "this proposal" ?

   Jim: Are we saying that we're passing references around? This is more
   implementation level detail.

   Alex: I'm not sure what you mean. The proposal Norm outlined is a
   variation of something I proposed a long time ago that you can find in the
   archives.
   ... What I'm saying today on the call is that we can do it with XDM
   document nodes.
   ... I think there's room in the current XDM to create some kind of
   Document node that has "on demand" content.
   ... Of course, we run the risk that someone will say we have to fix these
   things in the XDM.
   ... I'd like it to be possible for vendors to use extensions to the XDM to
   represent things like JSON if they wanted to.

   Norm waffles a bit about how implementors will react to this.

   <ht> Not clear to me why the string value isn't always empty

   Alex: What about plain text?

   Norm: I think those can just be Document nodes with a single Text node
   child. That's what XSLT does.

   Alex: There are two issues here: there's a story about random media types
   that you have and how they map into a Document node and then there's a
   possibly not-normative description of what you do with text/plain.

   Henry: I'm on a fine red line here. These are not XML documents, these are
   not XDM nodes, there is no string content, it's always empty. There's an
   accessor to get at the content.
   ... It's a recipe for confusion if there's any sort of flexibility here at
   all.

   Some discussion of text/plain documents.

   Alex: For semi-structured data like JSON, I want it to be possible for
   implementors to extend the XDM in ways to access JSON.

   Norm gives a little background about extending the XDM to JSON.

   Henry: Fine, we can do that in XProc 2.1. I think we need a complete and
   straightforward story about what these documents contain.
   ... Extending the XDM is a new version of the spec.

   Alex: I understand the concerns, we can make an issue about that.

   Jim: To help us with the story, I think we're jumping around a bit in use
   cases. Would it be good to create a set of pipelines that demonstrate some
   of these use cases.
   ... how far do we think this is going to go.
   ... Are we going to run p:viewport over binary documents?

   Alex: I think the simplest use case is just the ability to get the base
   URI.

   Norm: No, p:viewport only operates on XML, lots of steps only process XML.

   Some discussion of ZIP file manipulation.

   Some discussion of filtering p:for-each based on media type.

   Jim: There's a JSON use case, packaged up stuff (EPUB, zips), image
   processing use case.
   ... Anything else?

   <scribe> ACTION: A-262-01 Jim to attempt to describe these use cases,
   write demonstration pipelines. [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2015/01/07-xproc-minutes.html#action01]

   Alex: I think we should be explicit about the text/plain case.

   Norm: I think the next step is to consider what violence it does to the
   spec to attempt to describe binaries as having stub XDM Document nodes.

  Any other business?

   <jfuller> xml prague

   <jfuller> [16]http://www.xmlprague.cz/sessions2015/

   Alex: I think we should have some working pipelines that show off AVTs and
   stuff.
   ... Maybe you (Norm) can send an email outlining what you think we should
   cover.

   Adjourned.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: A-262-01 Jim to attempt to describe these use cases, write
   demonstration pipelines. [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2015/01/07-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
    
   [End of minutes]

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    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [18]scribe.perl version 1.140 ([19]CVS
    log)
    $Date: 2015-01-07 16:36:29 $

References

   1. http://www.w3.org/
   2. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-agenda
   3. http://www.w3.org/2015/01/07-xproc-irc
   4. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#agenda
   5. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#item01
   6. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#item02
   7. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#item03
   8. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#item04
   9. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#item05
  10. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#item06
  11. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-minutes#ActionSummary
  12. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/01/07-agenda
  13. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2014/12/10-minutes
  14. http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-datamodel/#DocumentNode
  15. http://www.w3.org/2015/01/07-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
  16. http://www.xmlprague.cz/sessions2015/
  17. http://www.w3.org/2015/01/07-xproc-minutes.html#action01
  18. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
  19. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Received on Wednesday, 7 January 2015 16:41:09 UTC

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