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Re: XProc Agenda 23 Feb 2012

From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:52:43 -0500
To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <m28vjt5yyc.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-minutes

[1]W3C

                                   - DRAFT -

                            XML Processing Model WG

23 Feb 2012

   [2]Agenda

   See also: [3]IRC log

Attendees

   Present
           Norm, Alex, Henry, Vojtech, Cornelia

   Regrets
           Mohamed, Jim

   Chair
           Norm

   Scribe
           Norm

Contents

     * [4]Topics

         1. [5]Accept this agenda?
         2. [6]Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
         3. [7]Next meeting 8 Mar 2012
         4. [8]Review of action items
         5. [9]Review of comments on processor profiles
         6. [10]Plans for V.next
         7. [11]Any other business?

     * [12]Summary of Action Items

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Accept this agenda?

   -> [13]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-agenda

   Accepted.

  Accept minutes from the previous meeting?

   -> [14]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/02-minutes.html

   Accepted.

  Next meeting 8 Mar 2012

   Accepted.

  Review of action items

   A-206-01: Completed.

   A-206-02: Continued.

   A-207-01: Continued.

   A-207-02: In progress.

  Review of comments on processor profiles

   Norm: None so far except for cmsmcq's comments on the last editor's draft.
   ... We'll wait until next meeting after the comment period has closed.

  Plans for V.next

   Norm attempts to summarize, with kudos to Vojtech for an excellent XML
   Prague talk.

   Norm: I think working on a concrete use cases/requirements document would
   help.

   Cornelia: I think that's the right way to proceed.

   Norm: Any volunteers to edit?

   Alex: I did it last time, I could try.

   Norm expresses concern about Alex's time commitments.

   Alex: What about Murray?

   Norm: If he showed up more often...

   Vojtech: It'll be interactive, because we don't know what we want to focus
   on.

   Alex: It's most just a matter of getting it setup.

   Norm: Alex why don't you and I try to get something started.
   ... Any issues to talk about today?

   Alex: What about parameters?

   Norm attempts to summarize.

   <ht> I guess the hard questions are the use cases that Jeni raised which
   drove us to the complexity in the first place

   Some discussion of using an option of type "parameters" that contains a
   map.

   Alex: I think the question is how to make this usable.
   ... I have a lot of pipelines where I have a set of options that come in
   that need to be turned into parameters.
   ... Using XQuery and XSLT steps, I have lots of parameters that are bound
   from pipeline options.
   ... There's the question of orchestrating this stuff such that the maps
   I'm using are connected correctly.
   ... What's the default map? In the context of a particular pipeline, if
   I've put parameters in a bag, I have to be able to access them.

   Norm: Listening to your description, I wonder about order.

   Alex: Aren't we talking about scoping here?

   Norm: Yes, maybe.

   Alex: You can think of it as another set of inputs, but conceptually it's
   not a straight-up port like we've talked about in the past.
   ... You can determine when things are dynamically computed.
   ... Or that should be the goal.

   Norm: We clearly need a concrete proposal here.

   Alex: A proposal should outline why we didn't like parameters as ports and
   how the proposal improves the situation.

   <scribe> ACTION: Norm to write up an alternate parameters proposal in a
   little more detail [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-xproc-minutes.html#action01]

   Vojtech: Alex often wants to change options into parameters, maybe it
   might be possible to pass parameter maps or options in scope to the step.

   Norm: Very clever.
   ... Yes, being able to list either maps of parameters or options would be
   nice.

   Vojtech: Moving options and parameters closer together would be good.

   Alex: Dealing with mutable vs. immutable values is also an issue. I often
   have a common set that comes in from the outside that I then want to add a
   few bits for just a step.
   ... Right now there's a bunch of with-params on the step right now and
   what we'd want to be able to say is that it's the global parameter set
   plus these additions.
   ... One approach is simplistic at the step: just pointing at different
   bags of parameters and outside of that there's some mechanism in the
   pipeline that determines what's in scope at that point. That pushes all
   the syntax out of the step and into the pipeline.
   ... The variables that are in scope can be declared outside of the
   expression.
   ... We could do something like that.

   Norm: I think that's a hard question to answer in the abstract, but it's a
   use case we should keep in mind.

   Alex: We should be working on use cases to demonstrate why the current
   situation is unwieldy and how an alternate proposal would be better.

  Any other business?

   None heard.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Norm to write up an alternate parameters proposal in a
   little more detail [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-xproc-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [17]scribe.perl version 1.136 ([18]CVS
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    $Date: 2012/02/23 15:52:01 $

References

   1. http://www.w3.org/
   2. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-agenda
   3. http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-xproc-irc
   4. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-minutes#agenda
   5. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-minutes#item01
   6. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-minutes#item02
   7. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-minutes#item03
   8. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-minutes#item04
   9. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-minutes#item05
  10. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-minutes#item06
  11. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-minutes#item07
  12. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-minutes#ActionSummary
  13. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-agenda
  14. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/02-minutes.html
  15. http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-xproc-minutes.html#action01
  16. http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-xproc-minutes.html#action01
  17. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
  18. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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