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XProc Minutes 9 June 2011

From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:50:22 -0400
To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <m2k4cor081.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org//XProc/2011/06/09-minutes

[1]W3C

                                   - DRAFT -

                            XML Processing Model WG

Meeting 194, 09 Jun 2011

   [2]Agenda

   See also: [3]IRC log

Attendees

   Present
           Norm, Alex, Vojtech, Paul, Henry, Murray

   Regrets
           Mohamed

   Chair
           Norm

   Scribe
           Norm

Contents

     * [4]Topics

         1. [5]Accept this agenda?
         2. [6]Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
         3. [7]Next meeting: telcon, 16 June 2011?
         4. [8]*output* port in p:catch
         5. [9]Review of state of processor profiles work
         6. [10]Transclusion in HTML5
         7. [11]Any other business?

     * [12]Summary of Action Items

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Accept this agenda?

   -> [13]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-agenda

   Accepted

  Accept minutes from the previous meeting?

   -> [14]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/05/05-minutes

   Accepted.

  Next meeting: telcon, 16 June 2011?

   No regrets heard.

  *output* port in p:catch

   Vojtech: It's like current in for-each and viewport. It's the same type of
   thing.

   Norm: I think you're right.
   ... I think for p:catch, we should just remove the word "output" which I
   think was Mohamed's suggestion.

   Vojtech: It occurs in two places.

   Proposal: Remove "output" from the discussion of the error port where it's
   an input not an output

   Accepted.

   <scribe> ACTION: Norm to write an erratum for the incorrect description of
   "error" as an output port in p:catch [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action01]

  Review of state of processor profiles work

   Henry: I've made no progress yet, hope to have something ready for next
   week.

   Norm: Alex looked at xml:id and XInclude

   ->
   [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2011Jun/0007.html

   Alex; Yes. I was able to get xml:id working quite well. It relies on DOM
   mutation events which work successfully in browsers where its supported.

   scribe: Unfortunately, webkit browsers don't support the mutation events
   API.
   ... That's related to XInclude because it talks about maintaining
   references.
   ... XInclude itself also works quite well, with the exception that the
   base URI property isn't used properly in some browsers. But that's just a
   bug.
   ... If you programmatically change the base URI by adding/changing the
   xml:base attribute, that has no effect in some browsers. But it does work
   in Firefox.
   ... Long story short: you can implement it in JavaScript. But if you have
   an implementation of this, then how does it get invoked?
   ... In some browsers, if you put XHTML script tags in, those scripts run.
   But in other browsers, e.g. IE9, then they don't. So there's no universal
   way to start the process.
   ... It might be possible to do this with extensions, but that's not
   standard browser behavior.

   ->
   [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2011Jun/0009.html

   Alex: Is there anything to note about this in the spec? It should be said
   that xml:base is supposed to change the base URI.

   Norm: Is it worth adding to the spec?

   <alexmilowski> [18]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12924

   Alex: The browsers do support xml:base, and HTML5 describes the right
   behavior, but it's not clear what happens when you programmatically change
   the base URI.
   ... You actually have to find and re-resolve the URIs on the elements.

   Murray: Are you suggesting that if you didn't rely on base URIs, that is
   if you provide the fully qualified URIs, that generally the browsers do
   what they need to do except for recursive XIncludes?

   Alex: No. I'm saying that Firefox does the right thing. The other browsers
   I tested don't do the right thing. But that's a bug and I've filed them.
   ... And the HTML5 spec says that what Firefox is doing is the right thing.
   ... What's not supported is programmatically changing the base URI to
   effect descendent attributes. For example, after an img src has been
   resolved, changing the base URI on an ancestor won't cause the img src to
   be recomputed.

   Murray: Are there utilities for doing base URI resolution? Like a unix
   filter that will expand URIs and give you back the fully qualified URIs?

   Alex: You could *write* one. There isn't a standard API in the browser to
   do this.

   Norm: XProc has a step to do this.

   Alex: Because we have the base URI property, we can control it. What the
   host language does is up to them and should be made clear.
   ... We should make it clear that the right semantic is that you resolve
   the URI against the base URI of the element and xml:base controls that.
   ... There's no magic.
   ... That's pretty much what the HTML5 spec says.

   Further discussion of the behavior of the base URI

   Some discussion of what it means, or should mean, to change the xml:base
   value after a document is ... yeah, is what? parsed? rendered?

   <scribe> ACTION: Paul to put the discussion of dynamic changes to xml:base
   on the XML Core agenda [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action02]

  Transclusion in HTML5

   Henry: This was background to Alex's concern in this area. Coming from a
   completely different perspective, the members of the team were saying that
   they need XInclude functionality without knowing it.
   ... It was really just as background.
   ... We'd had this discussion of whether XInclude should be int he profile
   we're hoping to sell to the browsers.

   Murray: Years ago, I imagined a world where you could use entities to pass
   along secret messages. No one would rely in them so they wouldn't show up
   in most tools.
   ... But every now and then someone would read a document that used an
   entity to include a secret message.
   ... That's why I'd like to say something about these things in XProc.
   ... We need transclusion, we've always needed it. That's why we had
   entities in SGML. That's why Ted Nelson coined the term.

   Some discussion of the future of entities.

   Murray: The case that I care about from GRDDL wasn't handled because we
   didnt have XInclude in our profile.

   Alex: That's true, that's part of the reason we got here.

   Norm: I think we're trying to get there. Can we get the browsers to
   support XInclude, can we do it in JavaScript if it's not part of what the
   browse does by default?
   ... These are the sorts of questions we're trying to resolve.

   Alex: It's clear that entities are dead in the browser.

   More discussion about profiles in general and support for GRDDL

   <scribe> ACTION: Norm to include an explicit mention of satisfying the
   GRDDL faithful rendition property in the appropriate profile [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action03]

   <Vojtech> Implementing GRDDL in XProc:
   [21]https://community.emc.com/docs/DOC-10276

  Any other business?

   None heard.

   Some discussion of f2f meetings: TPAC is it for this year

   Adjourned.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Norm to include an explicit mention of satisfying the GRDDL
   faithful rendition property in the appropriate profile [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Norm to write an erratum for the incorrect description of
   "error" as an output port in p:catch [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Paul to put the discussion of dynamic changes to xml:base on
   the XML Core agenda [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action02]

   [End of minutes]

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [25]scribe.perl version 1.136 ([26]CVS
    log)
    $Date: 2011/06/14 13:49:36 $

References

   1. http://www.w3.org/
   2. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-agenda
   3. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-irc
   4. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#agenda
   5. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item01
   6. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item02
   7. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item03
   8. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item04
   9. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item05
  10. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item06
  11. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#item07
  12. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes#ActionSummary
  13. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-agenda
  14. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/05/05-minutes
  15. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action01
  16. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2011Jun/0007.html
  17. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2011Jun/0009.html
  18. http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12924
  19. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action02
  20. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action03
  21. https://community.emc.com/docs/DOC-10276
  22. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action03
  23. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action01
  24. http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-xproc-minutes.html#action02
  25. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
  26. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Received on Tuesday, 14 June 2011 13:50:55 GMT

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