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RE: XProc Minutes 18 Nov 2010

From: Grosso, Paul <pgrosso@ptc.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 13:55:12 -0500
Message-ID: <9B2DE9094C827E44988F5ADAA6A2C5DA016F39AC@HQ-MAIL9.ptcnet.ptc.com>
To: <public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org>
Re:

>    Adjourned. See you in two weeks.

Make that 3 weeks (2010 Dec 9).

paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-xml-processing-model-wg-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-xml-
> processing-model-wg-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Norman Walsh
> Sent: Thursday, 2010 November 18 12:48
> To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
> Subject: XProc Minutes 18 Nov 2010
> 
> See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes
> 
> [1]W3C
> 
>                                    - DRAFT -
> 
>                             XML Processing Model WG
> 
> Meeting 184, 18 Nov 2010
> 
>    [2]Agenda
> 
>    See also: [3]IRC log
> 
> Attendees
> 
>    Present
>            Norm, Alex, Vojtech, Paul
> 
>    Regrets
>            Henry, Mohamed
> 
>    Chair
>            Norm
> 
>    Scribe
>            Norm
> 
> Contents
> 
>      * [4]Topics
> 
>          1. [5]Accept this agenda?
>          2. [6]Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
>          3. [7]Next meeting: telcon, 9 Dec 2010?
>          4. [8]Update on LC draft of processor profiles
>          5. [9]Review of p:document-template note
>          6. [10]GRDDL step?
>          7. [11]Possible erratum: definition of an XProc Processor
>          8. [12]Any other business?
> 
>      * [13]Summary of Action Items
> 
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> 
>   Accept this agenda?
> 
>    -> [14]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-agenda
> 
>    Accepted.
> 
>   Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
> 
>    -> [15]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/04-05-minutes
> 
>    As amended yesterday.
> 
>    Accepted.
> 
>   Next meeting: telcon, 9 Dec 2010?
> 
>    Accepted. (Skipping 25 Nov, US Thanksgiving, and 2 Dec.)
> 
>   Update on LC draft of processor profiles
> 
>    Henry reports he'll have something for us next week.
> 
>   Review of p:document-template note
> 
>    Norm: I think the only substantive issue is how to parse curly
> braces
> 
>    Vojtech: XQuery handles curly braces by watching for quotes.
>    ... I think doing it like that would be more consistent for users,
> but
>    harder for implementors.
> 
>    Norm: Well...
> 
>    Vojtech: On the other hand, maybe it's not really that hard.
> 
>    Norm attempts to summarize:
> 
>    When you see a "{" (not doubled), switch to xpath-mode. When you
see
> a '
>    or " in xpath-mode, switch to quote-mode. In quote-mode everything
> is
>    quoted until the closing quote.
> 
>    At the closing quote, go back to xpath-mode.
> 
>    In xpath-mode, a "}" whether it is doubled or not, immediately ends
> the
>    expression.
> 
>    Some discussion of what happens if you leave a quote out. You'll
> read the
>    whole content of whatever text node you're looking at.
> 
>    Norm: Are those the rules everyone prefers?
> 
>    Vojtech: What happens if you use character references for quotes?
> 
>    Norm: No. We'll only see the expanded references.
> 
>    Alex: I like it.
> 
>    Norm: In the common case, you'll be able to write { concat('{',
> $foo, '}')
>    }
>    ... That probably is easier than doubling all the curly braces
> 
>    Vojtech: What about the rules for doubled braces?
> 
>    Norm: We could say "{" is an error in XPath mode.
> 
>    Vojtech: What happens if XPath 3 introduces "{" in XPath?
> 
>    Alex: We'll have to change the parsing rules.
> 
>    Norm: Given that XSLT and XQuery both use curly braces to bound
>    expressions, it seems unlikely to me that they'll decide to use
them
> for
>    something else in XPath V.x
> 
>    In regular-mode, {{ is a {. In regular-mode, { (undoubled) starts
>    xpath-mode.
> 
>    In xpath-mode, ' or " starts quote-mode. In quote-mode no
characters
> are
> 
>    special except the matching quote that returns us to xpath-mode.
> 
>    In xpath-mode { is an error. In xpath-mode } ends the expression
and
>    returns
> 
>    to regular-mode (after inserting the result of evaluating the
> expression).
> 
>    Norm: Is that what people like?
> 
>    General agreement.
> 
>    Norm: Any other discussion about document templates or the note?
> 
>   GRDDL step?
> 
>    Alex: I was looking at GRDDL and think it's something we should do
> as a
>    standard step, but I haven't looked into it yet.
> 
>    Vojtech: I looked at the spec and from what I read, it seemed to me
> that
>    parts of it we could do already.
> 
>    <alexmilowski> e.g.
> 
>    <alexmilowski> <html xmlns="[16]http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
> 
>    <alexmilowski>
xmlns:grddl='[17]http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view#'
> 
>    <alexmilowski> grddl:transformation="glean_title.xsl
> 
>    <alexmilowski> [18]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-
> wg/td/getAuthor.xsl"
> 
>    <alexmilowski> >
> 
>    Vojtech: It just checks for attributes and fetches a stylesheet. It
> looks
>    like something that should be possible with XProc.
>    ... There's also the merging of the RDF graphs.
> 
>    Alex: That's what I was thinking about. One interpretation is that
> you'd
>    output RDF directly. Another is that you output Turtle or something
> like
>    that.
>    ... We should consider what would be useful for people doing
> something
>    like harvesting.
> 
>    <scribe> ACTION: Alex to review GRDDL and return with a suggestion.
>    [recorded in [19]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-
> minutes.html#action01]
> 
>    Alex: one outcome might be a standard pipeline but implementors
> could do
>    it natively.
>    ... That leads to an interesting possible enhancement: the ability
> to say
>    "here's the fallback implementation of this step" but with the
> explicit
>    provision that a native implementation could be used instead.
> 
>    Vojtech: The GRDDL spec says that the transformation can be any
> process,
>    typically it's XSLT. But XProc is also a possibility now too.
>    ... I wonder if we do the GRDDL step if we want to say something
> about
>    what languages are supported for the transformations.
> 
>    Alex: Right.
> 
>    Norm: Alex, as you consider GRDDL, please keep those things in
mind.
> 
>   Possible erratum: definition of an XProc Processor
> 
>    Vojtech: We don't have a definition of an XProc Processor.
> 
>    Alex: How did we do that?
> 
>    Norm: Does anyone think they can write a concise definition of an
> XProc
>    processor?
> 
>    Vojtech: There are all sorts of rules in the spec, it has to apply
> the
>    steps in the right order, etc.
> 
>    <scribe> ACTION: Vojtech will review the spec and propose a
> definition of
>    an XProc Processor. [recorded in
>    [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action02]
> 
>    <alexmilowski> [Definition: The software responsible for
> transforming
>    source trees into result trees using an XSLT stylesheet is referred
> to as
>    the processor. This is sometimes expanded to XSLT processor to
avoid
> any
>    confusion with other processors, for example an XML processor.]
> 
>    Norm: Yes, I think we'll want something like that.
> 
>   Any other business?
> 
>    Vojtech: I was wondering if having a p:sort would add any value.
>    ... something like split-sequence that takes an XPath expression to
> use
>    for ordering the documents.
> 
>    Norm: I'm not opposed. I never even thought of doing it.
> 
>    Vojtech: Maybe it's better to put something like this in EXProc.
> 
>    Norm: Yeah, we can leave it there and see if we get requests for a
> better
>    job.
> 
>    Vojtech: My concern is that it might not be sufficient for more
> complex
>    use cases.
>    ... if the sort criteria are not easy to express in an XPath
> expression,
>    for example.
> 
>    Alex: I'm just not sure what the use cases are.
> 
>    Vojtech: The use case that I had was that I was trying to implement
> OAuth
>    and you have to sort the request parameters before you hash them.
>    ... For that I needed a sort. It was simple string sort so you
could
> do
>    that with XSLT or XQuery.
> 
>    Adjourned. See you in two weeks.
> 
> Summary of Action Items
> 
>    [NEW] ACTION: Alex to review GRDDL and return with a suggestion.
> [recorded
>    in [21]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
>    [NEW] ACTION: Vojtech will review the spec and propose a definition
> of an
>    XProc Processor. [recorded in
>    [22]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action02]
> 
>    [End of minutes]
> 
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> 
>     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [23]scribe.perl version 1.135
> ([24]CVS
>     log)
>     $Date: 2010/11/18 18:47:20 $
> 
> References
> 
>    1. http://www.w3.org/
>    2. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-agenda
>    3. http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-irc
>    4. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#agenda
>    5. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item01
>    6. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item02
>    7. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item04
>    8. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item03
>    9. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item05
>   10. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item06
>   11. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item07
>   12. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item08
>   13. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#ActionSummary
>   14. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-agenda
>   15. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/04-05-minutes
>   16. http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml
>   17. http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view#'
>   18. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/getAuthor.xsl
>   19. http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action01
>   20. http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action02
>   21. http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action01
>   22. http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action02
>   23. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>   24. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Received on Thursday, 18 November 2010 18:55:46 GMT

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