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XProc Minutes 18 Nov 2010

From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 13:48:09 -0500
To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <m2ipzumpsm.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes

[1]W3C

                                   - DRAFT -

                            XML Processing Model WG

Meeting 184, 18 Nov 2010

   [2]Agenda

   See also: [3]IRC log

Attendees

   Present
           Norm, Alex, Vojtech, Paul

   Regrets
           Henry, Mohamed

   Chair
           Norm

   Scribe
           Norm

Contents

     * [4]Topics

         1. [5]Accept this agenda?
         2. [6]Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
         3. [7]Next meeting: telcon, 9 Dec 2010?
         4. [8]Update on LC draft of processor profiles
         5. [9]Review of p:document-template note
         6. [10]GRDDL step?
         7. [11]Possible erratum: definition of an XProc Processor
         8. [12]Any other business?

     * [13]Summary of Action Items

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Accept this agenda?

   -> [14]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-agenda

   Accepted.

  Accept minutes from the previous meeting?

   -> [15]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/04-05-minutes

   As amended yesterday.

   Accepted.

  Next meeting: telcon, 9 Dec 2010?

   Accepted. (Skipping 25 Nov, US Thanksgiving, and 2 Dec.)

  Update on LC draft of processor profiles

   Henry reports he'll have something for us next week.

  Review of p:document-template note

   Norm: I think the only substantive issue is how to parse curly braces

   Vojtech: XQuery handles curly braces by watching for quotes.
   ... I think doing it like that would be more consistent for users, but
   harder for implementors.

   Norm: Well...

   Vojtech: On the other hand, maybe it's not really that hard.

   Norm attempts to summarize:

   When you see a "{" (not doubled), switch to xpath-mode. When you see a '
   or " in xpath-mode, switch to quote-mode. In quote-mode everything is
   quoted until the closing quote.

   At the closing quote, go back to xpath-mode.

   In xpath-mode, a "}" whether it is doubled or not, immediately ends the
   expression.

   Some discussion of what happens if you leave a quote out. You'll read the
   whole content of whatever text node you're looking at.

   Norm: Are those the rules everyone prefers?

   Vojtech: What happens if you use character references for quotes?

   Norm: No. We'll only see the expanded references.

   Alex: I like it.

   Norm: In the common case, you'll be able to write { concat('{', $foo, '}')
   }
   ... That probably is easier than doubling all the curly braces

   Vojtech: What about the rules for doubled braces?

   Norm: We could say "{" is an error in XPath mode.

   Vojtech: What happens if XPath 3 introduces "{" in XPath?

   Alex: We'll have to change the parsing rules.

   Norm: Given that XSLT and XQuery both use curly braces to bound
   expressions, it seems unlikely to me that they'll decide to use them for
   something else in XPath V.x

   In regular-mode, {{ is a {. In regular-mode, { (undoubled) starts
   xpath-mode.

   In xpath-mode, ' or " starts quote-mode. In quote-mode no characters are

   special except the matching quote that returns us to xpath-mode.

   In xpath-mode { is an error. In xpath-mode } ends the expression and
   returns

   to regular-mode (after inserting the result of evaluating the expression).

   Norm: Is that what people like?

   General agreement.

   Norm: Any other discussion about document templates or the note?

  GRDDL step?

   Alex: I was looking at GRDDL and think it's something we should do as a
   standard step, but I haven't looked into it yet.

   Vojtech: I looked at the spec and from what I read, it seemed to me that
   parts of it we could do already.

   <alexmilowski> e.g.

   <alexmilowski> <html xmlns="[16]http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"

   <alexmilowski> xmlns:grddl='[17]http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view#'

   <alexmilowski> grddl:transformation="glean_title.xsl

   <alexmilowski> [18]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/getAuthor.xsl"

   <alexmilowski> >

   Vojtech: It just checks for attributes and fetches a stylesheet. It looks
   like something that should be possible with XProc.
   ... There's also the merging of the RDF graphs.

   Alex: That's what I was thinking about. One interpretation is that you'd
   output RDF directly. Another is that you output Turtle or something like
   that.
   ... We should consider what would be useful for people doing something
   like harvesting.

   <scribe> ACTION: Alex to review GRDDL and return with a suggestion.
   [recorded in [19]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action01]

   Alex: one outcome might be a standard pipeline but implementors could do
   it natively.
   ... That leads to an interesting possible enhancement: the ability to say
   "here's the fallback implementation of this step" but with the explicit
   provision that a native implementation could be used instead.

   Vojtech: The GRDDL spec says that the transformation can be any process,
   typically it's XSLT. But XProc is also a possibility now too.
   ... I wonder if we do the GRDDL step if we want to say something about
   what languages are supported for the transformations.

   Alex: Right.

   Norm: Alex, as you consider GRDDL, please keep those things in mind.

  Possible erratum: definition of an XProc Processor

   Vojtech: We don't have a definition of an XProc Processor.

   Alex: How did we do that?

   Norm: Does anyone think they can write a concise definition of an XProc
   processor?

   Vojtech: There are all sorts of rules in the spec, it has to apply the
   steps in the right order, etc.

   <scribe> ACTION: Vojtech will review the spec and propose a definition of
   an XProc Processor. [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action02]

   <alexmilowski> [Definition: The software responsible for transforming
   source trees into result trees using an XSLT stylesheet is referred to as
   the processor. This is sometimes expanded to XSLT processor to avoid any
   confusion with other processors, for example an XML processor.]

   Norm: Yes, I think we'll want something like that.

  Any other business?

   Vojtech: I was wondering if having a p:sort would add any value.
   ... something like split-sequence that takes an XPath expression to use
   for ordering the documents.

   Norm: I'm not opposed. I never even thought of doing it.

   Vojtech: Maybe it's better to put something like this in EXProc.

   Norm: Yeah, we can leave it there and see if we get requests for a better
   job.

   Vojtech: My concern is that it might not be sufficient for more complex
   use cases.
   ... if the sort criteria are not easy to express in an XPath expression,
   for example.

   Alex: I'm just not sure what the use cases are.

   Vojtech: The use case that I had was that I was trying to implement OAuth
   and you have to sort the request parameters before you hash them.
   ... For that I needed a sort. It was simple string sort so you could do
   that with XSLT or XQuery.

   Adjourned. See you in two weeks.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Alex to review GRDDL and return with a suggestion. [recorded
   in [21]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Vojtech will review the spec and propose a definition of an
   XProc Processor. [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action02]

   [End of minutes]

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [23]scribe.perl version 1.135 ([24]CVS
    log)
    $Date: 2010/11/18 18:47:20 $

References

   1. http://www.w3.org/
   2. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-agenda
   3. http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-irc
   4. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#agenda
   5. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item01
   6. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item02
   7. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item04
   8. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item03
   9. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item05
  10. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item06
  11. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item07
  12. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#item08
  13. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-minutes#ActionSummary
  14. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/18-agenda
  15. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/04-05-minutes
  16. http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml
  17. http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view#'
  18. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/getAuthor.xsl
  19. http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action01
  20. http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action02
  21. http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action01
  22. http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-xproc-minutes.html#action02
  23. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
  24. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Received on Thursday, 18 November 2010 18:48:43 GMT

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