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XProc Minutes 27 Mar 2008

From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:25:14 -0400
To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <m2skycgmmt.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/03/27-minutes

W3C[1]

                                   - DRAFT -

                            XML Processing Model WG

Meeting 105, 27 Mar 2008

   Agenda[2]

   See also: IRC log[3]

Attendees

   Present
           Norm, Paul, Richard, Henry, Rui

   Regrets
           Murray, Andrew

   Chair
           Norm

   Scribe
           Norm, pgrosso

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Accept this agenda?
         2. Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
         3. Next meeting: telcon 3 April 2008?
         4. Henry's alternate proposal
         5. What else do we need to do before we publish a draft.
         6. Names and media types
         7. Any other business?
     * Summary of Action Items

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  Accept this agenda?

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/03/27-agenda

   Accepted.

  Accept minutes from the previous meeting?

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/03/20-minutes

   Accepted.

  Next meeting: telcon 3 April 2008?

   Henry gives regrets.

   Norm observes that we'll all be on Summer Time starting 3 April, so adjust
   your calendars accordingly

  Henry's alternate proposal

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/alternate/

   Henry summarizes.

   Discussion reveals that Henry may have spec'd something other than what we
   think we intended.

   The order of p:with-options has no bearing on the result of the call,
   irrespective of what the alternate draft currently says.

   Richard: What's in scope when you're in the pipeline?

   Norm: Only the preceding siblings

   Richard: So if you screw up and refer to something that is defined later,
   then it might accidentally be bound.
   ... An implementation must behave as if it did this
   ... It evaluates the passed options, in any order
   ... stores them in a temporary place
   ... then goes through the options in the pipeline, in order, and takes
   their value from the secret place or computes the default

   <ht> I think it is sufficient to remove ", with the addition of variable
   bindings for all options whose declarations precede its declaration in the
   surrounding step's signature" from 5.7.3 in the alternate draft

   Norm: And crucially it can't see any bindings that come from the ancestors
   of the call

   Richard: So another way would be to check at compile time that the
   expressions don't refer to variables they aren't allowed to reference and
   do away with the temporary place

   Henry: The way the alternative draft achieves that is by specifying what
   the variable bindings are in the XPath context.
   ... For with-option, the variable bindings are determined by the
   environment of the surrounding step
   ... For option default, the variable bindings consist only of bindings for
   options who's decl.s precede it in the declaration

   Some discussion of dynamic vs. static checking and why we went with
   dynamic checking.

   Richard: This is the same as the case with XSLT parameters?

   Norm: Yes, I believe so.
   ... The one point I'd like to close on is whether we're going to allow
   variables mixed into subpipelines.

   Norm expresses why he needs the variables to be first.

   Richard: I agree

   Proposal: accept the alternate draft, amended as necessary, and with the
   explicit provision that all variable bindings occur at the beginning of
   the subpipeline.

   Accepted.

  What else do we need to do before we publish a draft.

   Henry: I should update the DTD and the W3C XML Schema
   ... And Norm should update the RNG schema

   Norm: We have a proposal for the name/media type nexus
   ... Henry's action on base URIs is still open
   ... I think that if we came to some conclusion about the base URI question
   and we agree on the media type/names question, that we're done. We should
   publish a new draft.
   ... Not a last call, just a regular working draft because we've changed so
   much.
   ... Can anyone think of anything else on the critical path?

  Names and media types

   Henry made a proposal.

   -> http://www.w3.org/mid/f5bd4pg9ymh.fsf@hildegard.inf.ed.ac.uk

   Henry summarizes.

   PGrosso, can you scribe for a moment or two?

   <scribe> scribenick: pgrosso

   Henry talks about the fact that, if we go to Rec, we might want to have a
   media type.

   A specific media type would, in theory, allow us to have a fragment
   identifier syntax that allows us to point into a pipeline.

   But it's unlikely that real world clients would really support such a frag
   id syntax, so registering a media type with such a fragid syntax would be
   misleading.

   So Henry concludes that we shouldn't define our own media type.

   Norm wants to simplify, so he tends to agree with Henry's conclusion.

   Norm figures people wouldn't be putting xml:id on things, so it might be
   nice to point to things by name rather than have to rely on tumblers (the
   element() xpointer scheme).

   But on balance he leans toward the simpler (no special media type).

   Henry says we could, in the future, define an xpointer scheme called
   xproc() to allow us to point into pipelines.

   We appear to have consensus to go with no special media, so appendix C or
   D or whatever will be reduced to a statement that we use application/xml
   for pipelines.

   Henry claims there are reasons other that pointing for steps to have
   names, so he does not proposed to remove secton 2.1.1, but he does suggest
   a change to the automatic naming mechanism to use tumblers.

   Norm is happy to go with tumblers. Paul and Henry prefer tumblers.

   <Norm> scribenick: Norm

   Richard: We really don't want automatically generated names to ever be
   able to conflict with a real name

   Norm: So: periods or slashes?

   Paul: Periods are fine.

   Proposed: Tumblers seperated by periods, beginning with a "!"

   Accepted.

  Any other business?

   None heard.

   Adjourned.

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

   [1] http://www.w3.org/
   [2] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/03/27-agenda
   [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/27-xproc-irc
   [8] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
   [9] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

    Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl[8] version 1.133 (CVS
    log[9])
    $Date: 2008/03/27 16:20:12 $

Received on Thursday, 27 March 2008 16:25:51 GMT

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