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XProc Minutes 17 July 2008

From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:13:14 -0400
To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <m2sku8qq7p.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/07/17-minutes

W3C[1]

                                   - DRAFT -

                            XML Processing Model WG

Meeting 119, 17 Jul 2008

   Agenda[2]

   See also: IRC log[3]

Attendees

   Present
           Norm, Vojtech, Rui, Mohamed, Andrew, Alex

   Regrets
           Richard, Paul, Henry

   Chair
           Norm

   Scribe
           Norm

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Accept this agenda?
         2. Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
         3. Next meeting: telcon 24 July 2008?
         4. Open action items
         5. Concerns about unescape-markup
         6. XQuery comments
         7. Any other business?
     * Summary of Action Items

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  Accept this agenda?

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/07/17-agenda

   Accepted.

  Accept minutes from the previous meeting?

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/07/03-minutes

   Accepted.

  Next meeting: telcon 24 July 2008?

   Norm gives regrets, Henry has agreed to chair.

  Open action items

   Alex and Norm, get to work!

  Concerns about unescape-markup

   -> http://www.w3.org/mid/20080513130252.7EA8F393D5D@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk

   Norm summarizes Richard's mail.

   Alex: The use case is things like RSS and things that have escaped markup
   in them.

   Norm: I think we should say that the XML declaration if it appears is
   ignored, and any DOCTYPE declarations are ignored.

   Alex: The algorithm that I use to do this that you wrap the text
   descendants in some kind of pseudo document element.
   ... So you can just run it through a parser.

   Norm: I don't care if we make it an error or if we ignore it, but I think
   we should be consistent.

   Alex: We could add an option to specify "treat like document

   Norm: Isn't that making things more complicated?

   Alex: You could get escaped markup from http-requests.
   ... You might really, truely get an HTML document.
   ... which would be escaped because text/html is not XML.
   ... I think we should say look, either treat the text as a document or
   treat it as a text entity.
   ... If you treat it as a document, then the default-namespace option is
   superflous.
   ... But any doctype declaration should do the right thing.

   Norm: SO your idea is make the user decide, and then the only thing that's
   difficult is a XML declaration at the top of something that you're not
   treating as a document.

   Vojtech: Why can't we just do the opposite of escape markup, just make it
   an error if the unescaped isn't an XML document.

   Alex: Because RSS often contains sibling escaped elements, not a valid
   document.
   ... The example in p:unescape-markup is wrong, the description element
   can't have the declaration.

   <scribe> ACTION: Alex to fix the example in p:unescape-markup so the
   namespace declarations are percolated through [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-minutes.html#action01[7]]

   Norm: So I still see just two possibilities: add a new option, or declare
   that XML decls and DTDs are ignored.

   Alex: What about the HTML case

   Norm: You'd get the document, it just wouldn't be validated.

   Alex: So no attribute defaulting?

   Vojtech: I sort of don't like that there's no symmetry between
   escape-markup and unescape-markup.
   ... In one we insert a wrapper, in the other we don't remove it.

   Alex: They are symmetrical, escape-markup escapes the children.

   Norm: Let's take this to email. We don't seem to be making any more
   progress today.

   Vojtech: It seems to me that there are two cases. If you use escape
   markup, you'll never produce something that contains an XML decl or
   doctype. So the only problem is text that comes from the outside.
   ... Maybe in that case we could provide an option to remove the containing
   element, so that we can handle doctypes or XML declarations.

   Alex: I think that was my idea for a "treat as document" element.

   Vojtech: So unescape-markup could remove the c:body wrapper and return the
   content.

   Norm: Can we take this to email?

   No objections

  XQuery comments

   Norm: Let's start with Andrew's comments first.

   ->
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2008Jul/0000.html

   Alex: I'm a little confused about invocation of XQuery and someone would
   want both a context node and a sequence of documents.

   Norm: Yes, Andrew wants to be able to distinguish the source document from
   the default collection.

   Alex: I don't understand from an XQuery context if it's comment to have a
   default collection and a context item?
   ... In XSLT, we say that the first node in the sequence is the context
   node.

   Norm: Let's try making that explicit in the XQuery step and be consistent.

   Proposal: Make XQuery consistent with XSLT wrt context node and default
   collection

   Accepted.

   Alex: Can we do a simple one, let's just adopt his description fo static
   and dynamic context.

   Norm: Don't we already?

   Alex: No

   Norm: Ok, right, we have it for XProc but not for XQuery.

   Alex: We should do it for both XSLT and XQuery

   Norm: Yes.

   <scribe> ACTION: Norm to update the XSLT and XQuery steps to include
   static and dynamic context information [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-minutes.html#action02[9]]

   Norm: Now let's look at making a reference to an XQuery file

   ->
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2008Jul/0010.html

   Norm: You can't load an external query now, which I think we need to fix.

   <alexmilowski>
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Jul/0011.html[11]

   Alex: I could read it with http-request
   ... You can do it with http-request, but input can't, and I don't see why.

   Norm outlines his email

   Alex: I can see two additions that would make this straightforward. We
   could make c:body the default wrapper.
   ... And I think it would be appropriate to say that you can do the
   conversion to base64 instead.
   ... Based on media-type, it should be able to do something better.
   ... But a pipeline could still fail if it got back media types it couldn't
   process.

   Mohamed: I'm opposed to changing p:document; I think we should do this
   with a step.
   ... I think we need a different p:load that's able to do this.

   Norm: What about putting something else in p:input as an alternative to
   p:document

   Mohamed: That would be ok to me.

   Alex: There are other things out there, there's SPARQL, etc.

   Mohamed: We have the same issue for RELAX NG compact syntax, and other
   places.

   Norm: We need uri and wrapper

   Mohamed: I think you also need encoding

   Norm: What about binary vs. text?

   Alex: We already have this language in http-request.

   Norm: Ok, I see what you mean.

   Alex: Having an option to tweak the charsets would also be handy.
   ... I think the default is, if it's not an XML media type, if it's not
   something you know is text, then you get base64.
   ... And then we have to decide about attributes on the wrapper.
   ... Basically, translation of the conversion we do on c:body, basically.

   <scribe> ACTION: Norm/Alex to write up a proposal to add this. [recorded
   in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-minutes.html#action03[12]]

  Any other business?

   None heard.

   Adjourned.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Alex to fix the example in p:unescape-markup so the
   namespace declarations are percolated through [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-minutes.html#action01[13]]
   [NEW] ACTION: Norm to update the XSLT and XQuery steps to include static
   and dynamic context information [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-minutes.html#action02[14]]
   [NEW] ACTION: Norm/Alex to write up a proposal to add this. [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-minutes.html#action03[15]]
    
   [End of minutes]

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

   [1] http://www.w3.org/
   [2] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/07/17-agenda
   [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-irc
   [7] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-minutes.html#action01
   [9] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-minutes.html#action02
   [11]
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Jul/0011.html
   [12] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-minutes.html#action03
   [13] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-minutes.html#action01
   [14] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-minutes.html#action02
   [15] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-xproc-minutes.html#action03
   [16] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
   [17] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

    Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl[16] version 1.133 (CVS
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    $Date: 2008/07/17 16:28:54 $

Received on Thursday, 17 July 2008 19:14:02 GMT

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