W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org > April 2008

Re: XProc Agenda 17 Apr 2008

From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:55:07 -0400
To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <m24pa0xvys.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/04/17-minutes

W3C[1]

                                   - DRAFT -

                            XML Processing Model WG

Meeting 108, 17 Apr 2008

   Agenda[2]

   See also: IRC log[3]

Attendees

   Present
           Paul, Henry, Alessandro, Norm, Vojtech, Andrew, Mohamed

   Regrets
           Rui, Alex, Richard

   Chair
           Norm

   Scribe
           Norm

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Accept this agenda?
         2. Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
         3. Next meeting: telcon 24 April 2008?
         4. Consideration of the editor's draft
         5. Any open issues we want to try to close before 1 May publication?
         6. Parameter input ports
         7. Add @fail-on-error to p:for-each/p:viewport
         8. Empty document node vs. undefined context.
         9. Any other business?
     * Summary of Action Items

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  Accept this agenda?

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/04/17-agenda

   Accepted.

  Accept minutes from the previous meeting?

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/04/10-minutes

   Accepted.

  Next meeting: telcon 24 April 2008?

   Continuing regrets from Rui for 24 Apr. No other regrets given.

  Consideration of the editor's draft

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/langspec.html

   Vojtech: The label-elements step has a default value for the label which
   uses a hardcoded p: prefix.

   Norm: Uh. Yeah.
   ... Maybe we should not give label a default value but instead express the
   semantics that are the default if it isn't given.

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/langspec.html#c.label-elements

   Norm: The penultimate paragraph needs to be fudged a bit too.

   Vojtech: I expect that the parameter port on the XQuery step is for
   setting XQuery variables, but that isn't mentioned in the text.

   Norm: Indeed, we should probably say something about that.

   Henry: "p:" is used an awful lot and the namespace is used before 3.1.
   Maybe move up?

   Norm: I will take px out where it isn't needed.

   Vojtech: Use href instead of path for directory-list?

   Norm: No, I think we did that on purpose to discourage people from
   believing that http: will work.

   Vojtech: There are other cases where relative URIs are resolved.

   Norm: I'll add a global note about relative URIs being made absolute wrt
   the nearest element.

   Henry: The short-form case should also be called out.

   Norm: Definitely.
   ... The editor will figure something out.
   ... Any other questions about 14 Apr draft?

   Mohamed: For the definition of iteration-position, etc. we use 'integer'.
   For XPath 1.0 that doesn't exist, we should say that it's mapped to
   number.

   Norm: No, we probably should say that.
   ... I'll see about making some global statement about XPath 1.0 vs. XPath
   2.0

   Proposed: The editor will make the corrections outlined above as well as
   editorial corrections suggested in email and we will publish this as an
   ordinary public working draft.

   General agreement

   Norm: I'll work with Henry to figure out when the publishing moratorium
   ends and we'll publish asap.

   Paul: The moratorium ends on 28 Apr.

   Norm: Let's publish on 1 May.

  Any open issues we want to try to close before 1 May publication?

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments.html

   Norm: Henry, you wanted to think about value=, did you?

   Henry: The fact that we can't be parallel to XSLT is what really bothers
   me. (Because we can't have content.)

   Norm: I think it's more likely they'll be confused by using value when
   they meant select and vice versa.

   Some discussion of what errors users might think are confusing.

   Henry: select='div' is the problem case, right? Consider using that in
   rename.
   ... Given that the majority of our users have not yet seen this language,
   let's go for it.
   ... But make sure that we use the short form wherever possible in the
   document.

   Alessandro: Another concern is that in many languages value holds an XPath
   expression, which could be confusing.

   Henry: So that's also in favor of getting rid of value?

   Alessandro: Yes, I think so.

   Norm: Is there anyone who has reservations about losing value?

   Vojtech: If we get rid of value, then we would need to fix a lot of
   strings in the standard library.

   Mohamed: I think the main problem was that if we use select, then we'll
   get non-string results from some expressions.

   Norm: I'm still on the fence, but I see that there are more issues.

   Henry: And you don't get the short-form workaround for p:variable, which
   is the first example of value= in the spec.

   Norm: Maybe we should ask.

   Henry: I think we should *do it* and then ask. So that users can see the
   consequences.

   Mohamed: I think we're opening a door we tried to close, about leaving all
   the type of value and option as string. Now we'll have the type from XPath
   1.0 or 2.0 and we'll have to deal with that.

   Norm: I think that's true even if we leave value= in.

   Henry: It's slightly odd that for boolean valued options you can either
   write select="'true'" or select="true()"
   ... What you can't write is select="'true()'" or select="true".

   Norm: Right. But that's the same in XSLT.

   Proposal: Ditch value= and make it clear in SoTD that we're open to
   reintroducing it if there's pressure.

   (And subject to the editor's ability to do this before 1 May)

   Accepted.

  Parameter input ports

   Norm attempts to describe the status quo.

   Norm: Should we treat this like our value= decision and remove it now,
   asking the users if they have problems with that.

   Proposed: Pull out the magic, note it in the SoTD.

   Accepted.

  Add @fail-on-error to p:for-each/p:viewport

   Norm attempts to describe the situation raised by James Fuller.

   Mohamed: I asked for something like this for rename a few months ago. So
   you can tell if it did some renaming.
   ... I think if we do it for for-each, we should do it for other steps as
   well.

   Alessandro: Another way to look at is to use an XPath 2.0 treat as
   expression.
   ... match="chapter treat as element()+"

   Norm: Interesting.
   ... I think on balance, I'd rather not given the analsys that would be
   required to find other steps where it made sense.

   Henry: I'm in favor of the status quo.

   Proposed: Not for V1.

   Accepted.

  Empty document node vs. undefined context.

   Norm: More consistent with XPath 2.0.

   Mohamed: What's the consequence for someone converting from XPath 1.0 to
   XPath 2.0?

   Norm: That expressions that relied on the empty context node will now be
   errors: fix your expressions.

   Mohamed: I'm ok with it.

   Alessandro: I agree too.

   Proposed: In XPath 2.0 implementations, make the default context node
   undefined in those places where it's currently an empty document node.

   Accepted.

  Any other business?

   Some discussion of future meetings; Norm will have to give regrets for 15
   May and 22 May, Henry will chair.

   Adjourned.

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

   [1] http://www.w3.org/
   [2] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/04/17-agenda
   [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/04/17-xproc-irc
   [9] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
   [10] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

    Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl[9] version 1.133 (CVS
    log[10])
    $Date: 2008/04/17 16:53:47 $

Received on Thursday, 17 April 2008 16:55:46 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Thursday, 17 April 2008 16:55:47 GMT