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XProc Minutes 29 Mar 2007

From: Norman Walsh <Norman.Walsh@Sun.COM>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:36:46 -0400
To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <871wj857mp.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/03/29-minutes.html


                                   - DRAFT -

                            XML Processing Model WG

29 Mar 2007


   See also: IRC log[3]


           Norm, Mohamed, Rui, Alessandro, Paul, Richard, Alex, Henry





     * Topics
         1. Accept this agenda?
         2. Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
         3. Next meeting: telcon 5 Apr 2007
         4. Review of proposed next public working draft
         5. Use of QNames for error reporting
         6. Review of the step library
         7. Any other business?
     * Summary of Action Items


  Accept this agenda?

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/03/29-agenda.html


  Accept minutes from the previous meeting?

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/03/22-minutes.html


  Next meeting: telcon 5 Apr 2007

   Henry gives regrets for 5 Apr

  Review of proposed next public working draft

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/WD-xproc-20070405/

   Henry: In 4.5, you forgot to make the inheritance edit

   <ht> Try's environment stuff is _two_ generations out of date

   Mohamed points to a prefix problem in 2.1, http-request

   Alex will fix that.

   Norm will fix the environment stuff in try/catch as well.

   Some discussion of the new "c:" namespace for standard component inputs
   and outputs

   Proposed: Remove XHTML from the default set of ignored prefixes


   Proposed: We will publish the current draft with the modifications
   described immediately above as our next Public Working Draft


  Use of QNames for error reporting

   Norm: I'm suggesting that we identify all the static and dynamic errors
   with QNames so that implementations can report them.

   Henry: I'd like to suggest we use our own namespace.

   Proposal: The editor will incorporate this change.


  Review of the step library

   Mohamed had some comments:


   Mohamed: Join sequences is just an identity with a bunch of inputs.

   Henry: I think Mohamed is right.

   Norm: I think Mohamed is right as well.

   Alex: Are we clear about what multiple inputs do?

   Norm: Yes, I think so.

   <scribe> ACTION: Norm to clarify what p:input means when it contains a
   document and a pipe. [recorded in

   <scribe> ACTION: Alex to remove join-sequences [recorded in

   Mohamed: The load component uses the phrase "parameter" where an option is
   actually used. We should fix that.

   Norm: Yes, I think we need to clarify that text.

   <ht> ACTION: Alex to replace 'parameter' to 'option' as appropriate in the
   explanatory text of the built-in step appendices [recorded in

   <ht> Mohamed: Wrt p:load I'm not sure the order of option and output is
   very good

   <ht> Norm: The change we made last week freeing those up should fix that

   <ht> Mohamed: Ah, good

   Mohamed: For p:subsequences, what will the XPath be for selecting the
   first or all but the first documents in the sequence?

   Alex: Right now, this doesn't select by order, it selects by contents.

   Norm: I think we're going to need additional options for selecting by

   <ht> Alex, note that "applies and XPath" in 1.5 Subsequence should be
   "applies an XPath"

   Alex: The real use case here is getting the outputs from xslt

   Norm: I propose "start" and "length" with "first" and "last" as magic

   Henry: Surely we don't need "first".
   ... I'd prefer to use -1 as the magic token.

   Norm: We could do it that way.

   Norm reviews the fn:subsequence function from XPath2 F&O

   Henry: Instead of inventing new syntax, we say that in the context of this
   evaluation, we say that there's a parameter in the pipeline namespace
   that's bound to the index of the document.
   ... Then you can say $p:position = 3 to get the third.
   ... But we'd also have to have $p:last and I wouldn't want to have to
   implement that in the way that it's implemented in XPath because I don't
   know what the last document is until slightly after I've found it.
   ... I sort of like $p:position (a number) and $p:last (a boolean).

   Alex: Last is really hard for streaming.

   Henry: The problem is you'd have to inspect the XPath to know if you
   needed to keep track of the positions.
   ... I think the right combination is to use p:position, because that's
   free. Then you can do almost anything you want.

   Alex: I don't think I understand.

   Henry: We have an option called "last-only" or something like that

   Norm: You think in V1, we can get away without being able to get the last
   three documents?

   Henry: Absolutely.

   Alex: I think we need to support the common use case.
   ... We need last because the XSLT 2 component gives the principle result
   as the last document.
   ... No where else do we have a variable bound for XPath, do we?

   <ht> So I have in mind something like option name="last-handling" with
   values 'exclude' or 'only' or 'default'

   Norm: Alex, do you think you have enough information to try writing this

   Alex: Yes.

   Henry: In 3.2, insert still says that "start" is required but it also
   provides a default for it in the text. That's an editorial fix. I think it
   should not be required, there should be a default.

   Mohamed: I wanted to reconsider p:map as part of the caching story.
   ... I'd like to have two outputs for XSLT 1 and XSLT 2, one that produces
   the principle result and another that produces the sequence of alternate
   ... I'd like to be able to get the primary output even if one of the
   secondary outputs isn't well formed.

   Norm: I'm not sure about that part

   Alex: I like the idea, but is this inconsistent with XSLT2?

   Henry: I like Mohamed's alternative better than forcing the principle
   result to be last.

   Norm: I'm happy with the idea. Anyone uncomfortable about it?

   Richard: Does this mean that exsl:result-document won't write the results
   to disk?

   Norm: Yes, I think that's what I mean.

   Henry: I think we're going to have to say something about the safety of
   XProc. Consider what we'd say if we needed a "Security Considerations"
   ... I'd like to be able to say that conformant implementations will never
   write to disk unless you can see it in the pipeline.

   Richard: Surely that depends on the components.

   Henry: Yes, but all of the components specified in our document should be
   safe, except for store.

   Richard: But we're talking about extensions to XSLT. Surely a language
   that allows extension can't be prevented from writing to disk.

   Alex: I think for XSLT 1, we can say that the alternate documents appear
   on the port. We don't have to say anything about whether or not XSLT also
   serialized them.

   Henry: It sounds like we have agreement about the secondary port, but we
   need to come back to the discussion of safety of components.

  Any other business?



Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Alex to remove join-sequences [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: Alex to replace 'parameter' to 'option' as appropriate in
   the explanatory text of the built-in step appendices [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: Norm to clarify what p:input means when it contains a
   document and a pipe. [recorded in
   [End of minutes]


   [1] http://www.w3.org/
   [2] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/03/29-agenda.html
   [3] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/29-xproc-irc
   [8] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/29-xproc-minutes.html#action01
   [9] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/29-xproc-minutes.html#action02
   [10] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/29-xproc-minutes.html#action03
   [11] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/29-xproc-minutes.html#action02
   [12] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/29-xproc-minutes.html#action03
   [13] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/29-xproc-minutes.html#action01
   [14] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
   [15] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

    Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl[14] version 1.128 (CVS
    $Date: 2007/03/29 16:35:00 $

Received on Thursday, 29 March 2007 16:37:09 UTC

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