Minutes for XProc WG telcon of 16 Mar 2006 from Norman Walsh on 2006-03-16 (public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org from March 2006)

From: Norman Walsh <Norman.Walsh@Sun.COM>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:10:20 -0500
To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <878xranwn7.fsf@nwalsh.com>

See also: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/03/16-minutes.html

W3C[1]

- DRAFT -

XML Processing Model WG

16 Mar 2006

Agenda[2]

See also 5.30.

Use case 5.31

Henry: We should consider the order of use cases, but perhaps not this
week.
... I'd like an important aspect of 5.32 to be called out (see the comment
in my email)
... The important point is that some of the PSVI properties have to
survive across steps
... Note that there's no way to reorder these steps: this is the only
order that works because the schema doesn't accept xml:base attributes,
but the expansion requires xs:anyURI typed values.

Use case 5.26

Norm: I think we simply need some feedback from the DSDL folks about how
validation and transformation relate and how much of that depends on
pipelining.

Henry: Step 7 is the interesting step in a use case that claims to be
about validation

<scribe> ACTION: Norm to contact the DSDL folks about this use case
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/16-xproc-minutes.html#action01[12]]

Alex: I don't understand why there's transformation in the validation use
case
... Where's the 'I validated all the pieces but now I know the whole thing
is valid' step?

Murray: I think if we have a problem with the use cases, we can just put a
comment in indicating an issue

Alex reports that he was planning to make another pass

On the question of order

scribe:

Murray: I guess the ordering rule is something I can't describe in detail,
but basically the use cases that concern us most need to be up front. The
use cases that expose issues that are addressed later should be organized
for "progressive exposure"
... Put the 60% use cases first, then the remaining ones after and by the
time you get to the last one, you're really way out on the edge

Alex: Ok, that's pretty clear, I can take a stab with those directions.

For next week hopefully, we'll have an improved DSDL use case, we'll have
an improved table of use-case/requirement pairings, and a suggested order
for the use cases and requirements.

Norm: Personally, I think you should work on the table last because I
think it could just be delted.

Alex: Deleting it is one possibility.

Murray: I think it should be possible to follow your nose from use cases
to requirements and that's as far as I think we have to go
... We'll have to explore any requirements that don't have use cases

Norm: I think it's really important to get a first working draft of this
document out this month.
... So we should plan to vote on that next week or give a really concise
summary of what needs to change so that we can vote on the 30th.

General agreement.

Alex: I'll try to go through with an editorial fine-toothed comb

Murray: It'd be valuable to have 24-48 hours of frozen text before I do
that

Alex: I'll try to send it out for this later this week.

Murray: For each of the requirements and use cases, I assume there's an
ID. Can you expose what they are?

Alex: Yes, I can do that.

Norm: Any other comments?
... Ok, then go ahead and publish it as soon as you can Alex

Conditionals or another issue

Norm: In the general realm of conditional, it wasn't clear to me how to
bind xpath expressions to a particular document
... I thought Alessandro's suggestion of binding the document to the
conditional was a clever idea

Murray: What about a test against three documents?

Henry: Are you asking about a conditional that isn't based on the primary

Norm tries to explain his question about conditionals

Henry: I wish Richard was here. In Richard's ontology, all you have is
pipes and components and you plug them toghether. I think his conception
of the conditional component was one that had one input and no outputs and
that was the conditonal flow.
... So the input to the conditional was the one against which the
evaluation was performed

Norm: I think it'd help to see an example like that

Murray: Implicit in what I just heard from Henry was that there could be
any number of conditional components.
... I could create a conditional that was derived from my own inference
engine, for example, and make their determination based on that.
... We could offer a number of conditional components that behave in a
variety of ways but we'll never cover all the possible scenarios.

Norm: So it's a component that you can plug in and the component is used
to branch on the conditional

Murray: And the component might not return true or false it might set a
bunch of different variables

Norm: We'd have to work out how a component could set variables in the
environment, which is something we've danced around

Alex: It seems like there's a distinction here between things you can
statically analyze and things that are input driven.

Norm: Yep

Alex: Even if we use a component to do that, which inputs does it use.

Norm: We already have a story of how components take inputs
... That satisfies my desire to talk about conditionals, we've got more
options on the table.

Any any other business

Murray asks about a face-to-face

Murray offers to host a f2f north of Toronto either the week before or
after Extreme

Henry: After would work much better for me

Norm: Murray will you post this in mail?

Murray: Yes, I'll try to do that today.

Norm: We are adjourned.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Norm to contact the DSDL folks about this use case [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/16-xproc-minutes.html#action01[13]]

[End of minutes]

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[1] http://www.w3.org/
[2] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/03/16-agenda.html
[3] http://www.w3.org/2006/03/16-xproc-irc
[4] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/03/16-agenda.html
[5] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/02/23-minutes.html
[6] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/02/27-morning-minutes.html
[7] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/02/27-afternoon-minutes.html
[8] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/02/28-morning-minutes.html
[9] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/02/28-afternoon-minutes.html
[10] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/langreq.html
[11]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2006Mar/0017.html
[12] http://www.w3.org/2006/03/16-xproc-minutes.html#action01
[13] http://www.w3.org/2006/03/16-xproc-minutes.html#action01
[14] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[15] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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$Date: 2006/03/16 17:08:39 $

Be seeing you,
norm

--
Norman.Walsh@Sun.COM / XML Standards Architect / Sun Microsystems, Inc.
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Received on Thursday, 16 March 2006 17:10:44 UTC