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Re: [XHTML2] INS, DEL, and MOD

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:25:51 +0000
To: Roland Merrick <roland_merrick@uk.ibm.com>
Cc: Christophe Strobbe <christophe.strobbe@esat.kuleuven.be>, public-xhtml2@w3.org, public-xhtml2-request@w3.org, rob@robburns.com, Tina Holmboe <tina@greytower.net>
Message-Id: <20090211141423.M75482@hicom.net>

aloha, roland!

you outlined 3 possible solutions:

quote
> 1.      INS and DEL
>         Pro: This is the status quo and people are familiar with 
> it.        Con:
> 
> 2.      MOD
>         Pro:
>         Con:
> 
> 3.      INS, DEL and MOD
unquote

and advanced another -- use of DIFF:

quote
> Authoring specs in xmlspec is my only experience of explicitly 
> marking up changes. I did not like using @diff="chg", I 
> preferred to use @diff="add" and @diff="del" so that I could be 
> more explicit. So, personal opinion, I do not like, and do not 
> feel the need for, MOD (or diff="chg").
unquote

my attempts at an answer:

1. the con of INS and DEL alone is that they are black and white, while
editorial work is often more subtle than blocks-to-be-deleted and 
blocks-to-be-inserted

2. MOD - pro: 1 element to mark changes; element should be able to also
contain a date-stamp and a means of identifying who made the edits/changes

3. i VERY much like the idea of a single element with properties 
such as "add" "del" "chg" "sp" (correction to an orthographic error)
as well as a means of declaratively stating when the edit ocurred, 
and by whom it was effected...  a single element also provides the 
opportunity to be very precise about the nature, function and origins
of the modification

so, i come down on the side of a single element (call it what you will)
that expresses the nature of changes to a document via a list of 
editorial attributes, so that the shades of grey left by the binary 
team of INS and DEL, can be clarified...  whether the @diff or @type
or @role attribute is utilized, i think that the important thing to 
offer authors and online collaborators is:

a) a means of marking editorial changes;

b) a means of classifying an editorial change;

c) a means of conveying when and by whom the change was affected;

d) a recognition that things are not black and white, but a thousand
shades of grey

gregory.
----------------------------------------------------------------
CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils,
as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them 
with others.         -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
----------------------------------------------------------------
             Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net
  Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------------


---------- Original Message -----------
From: Roland Merrick <roland_merrick@uk.ibm.com>
To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
Cc: Christophe Strobbe <christophe.strobbe@esat.kuleuven.be>,
public-xhtml2@w3.org, public-xhtml2-request@w3.org, rob@robburns.com, Tina
Holmboe <tina@greytower.net>
Sent: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:45:24 +0000
Subject: Re: [XHTML2] INS, DEL, and MOD

> Greetings, this is a tricky subject. I would like us to develop 
> a argument that examines the alternatives in therms of their 
> pros and cons. I think that there are at least three 
> alternatives using elements:
> 
> 1.      INS and DEL
>         Pro: This is the status quo and people are familiar with 
> it.        Con:
> 
> 2.      MOD
>         Pro:
>         Con:
> 
> 3.      INS, DEL and MOD
> 
> Another approach used in xmlspec is the use of @diff with values 
> of add, chg, del
> 
> Authoring specs in xmlspec is my only experience of explicitly 
> marking up changes. I did not like using @diff="chg", I 
> preferred to use @diff="add" and @diff="del" so that I could be 
> more explicit. So, personal opinion, I do not like, and do not 
> feel the need for, MOD (or diff="chg").
> 
> Regards, Roland
> 
> From:
> "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
> To:
> Tina Holmboe <tina@greytower.net>, public-xhtml2@w3.org
> Cc:
> Christophe Strobbe <christophe.strobbe@esat.kuleuven.be>, rob@robburns.com
> Date:
> 05/02/2009 22:09
> Subject:
> [XHTML2] INS, DEL, and MOD
> 
> aloha, tina!
> 
> i cannot find our exchange on INS, DEL and my proposal for MOD
> 
> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/ProposedElements/MOD
> 
> but i do remember your asking me, "INS and DEL are nicely 
> binary. Either it is, or it isn't. What is MOD?", so here is an 
> attempt to answer your question with an example of the type of 
> ambiguity a strict binary change marker can cause...
> 
> the reason why i suggested MOD was to cover situations which 
> frequently occur in online collaborative work, such as that 
> contained in the following (brief) threads from wai-xtech:
> 
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2009Jan/thread.html#msg55
> 
> and
> 
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2009Jan/thread.html#msg58
> 
> in this exchange, there was confusion and ambiguity between what 
> was deleted and what had been inserted and what had been 
> modified, when, by whom, and why
> 
> that's why i also considered reducing the change marking element 
> to a single element, such as MOD or CHANGE, with defined types 
> and/or roles, which can cover any and all conceivable cases...
> 
> gregory.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils,
> as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them 
> with others.         -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>              Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net
>   Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Unless stated otherwise above:
> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales 
> with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, 
> Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
------- End of Original Message -------
Received on Wednesday, 11 February 2009 14:27:04 GMT

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