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DRAFT minutes: XHTML2 telecon 18 july 2007

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:02:58 -0400
To: public-xhtml2@w3.org
Message-Id: <20070718150025.M84536@hicom.net>

the minutes are available in hypertext at:


and attached as a text file...  Yam, i apologize for consistently getting
your name wrong (it is corrected in the plain text version below), and 
anyone else who is marked by a ?? a ??? or ???3, the 3 persons i could 
not identify by voice -- i should have asked, but was on mute until SP 
asked for my report on the WAI ARIA triplets, so that my screen 
reader's output wouldn't bleed into the call...



      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                    Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference

18 Jul 2007


      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0030

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2007/07/18-xhtml-irc


          Roland_, Steven, +, Tina, Gregory_Rosmiata,

          Shane, Rich, Alessio, Mark

          Roland, Steven

          Gregory J. Rosmaita


     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Coming calls
         2. [6]agenda item 6: Testing XHTML Basic 1.1
     * [7]Summary of Action Items

   <Steven> [8]Previous

      [8] http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-xhtml-minutes

   <yamx> We OMA are very pleased to see XHTMLBasic 1.1 CR status.

   SP: XHTML Basic 1.1 Is a Candidate Recommendation!!!
   ... asked when exit CR? - end of august begining of october
   ... Draft schedule for November meeting (TPAC)
   ... not on monday and tuesday, but other end of the weeek; tech
   plenary tries to get as many WGs together in one place at one time;
   get to work out issues, get to make new liaisons, etc.
   ... wednesday a plenary day - mini-conference
   ... thursday and friday rest of groups meet; going to be an AC
   (advisory committee) meeting as well -- new, so made half day AC
   meeting on thursday, so groups can meet thursday afternoon, friday
   (all day) and saturday morning
   ... still have to decide if want to use saturday morning - depends
   on agenda - by then, anticipate quite a big agenda
   ... we are meeting at same time as HTML working group; don't know if
   can meet up with them, but we shall see

      [9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0027

Coming calls

     [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0004

   SP: propose we skip a week due to lack of chair or chair pro tem

   no objections

   SP: skip a week -- in 2 weeks roland will chair (roland available
   until end of august)
   ... Next Face2Face:
   ... now have exact times, locations, etc.

     [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0005

   AGENDA ITEM 1: Reply to Schema Working Group

   SP: has anyone looked at comments and reply? if have comments,
   please bring them to the fore ASAP
   ... general schema principles -- marked 2 places with @@ were wasn't
   sure were finished


     [12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0011

   Reply to comments on XHTML Modularization 1.1 from XML Schema WG

     [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0011

   AGENDA ITEM 2: analysis for hypertext CG comparision between basic
   1.0 to 1.1; added print and XHTML Basic 1.1; XHTML 1.1 is the
   superset of all, except for inputmode which is now part of basic 1.1
   should we add it to next release of XHTML 1.1

     [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0016

   SP: due to come out when modularization comes out of CR; window of
   opportunity; parent language of sub-set languages
   ... objections? entirely optional -- only a hint to the processor,
   but for mobile versions of XHTML good feature to have -- already in
   XHTML2 due to XForms

   <scribe> ACTION: Shane - add input mode to XHTML 1.1 second edition
   [recorded in

   SP: shane not here (sent regrets) -- can discuss but not decide
   until shane here
   ... XHMTL2 WG has task force (meets once a week on thursday
   evenings) working on RDFa -- allows one to define more semantics for
   elements; similar to microformats, but much more disciplined;
   generates RDF triples; modularization doesn't define base -- need to
   ... shane's Q: should we accomodate base or incorporate into 1.1?
   ... other question: what should we do relative to base elements, if
   they disagree with one another

   scribe's note: base = XML Base

   SP: history: going to need facility like base in HTML, so XML Base
   produced; made last call for XLink; should be defining meaning of
   XML Base
   ... ought to do it for future versions of language, not past
   versions; right now no one doing it; should we add to XHTML 1.1 or
   state that future versions of XHTML will build on it
   ... allowable on any element; specifies the effect - how to
   interpret relative URIs for all children of element

   <Steven> [16]http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlbase/

     [16] http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlbase/

   ??: could we not use that to override what is in base; equivalent of

   SP: good approach -- on HTML (applies to head and body elements)
   ... rules specified except for what they do if on HTML element and a
   BASE in head which is different
   ... what do we think should happen

   ???: XML Base as fragment

   SP: Base for legacy / backwards compatibility, but otherwise
   overridden by XML Base

   ???: could be interpreted afterwards, XML Base a refinement; if no
   XML Base, use what is in HTML instance's head

   SP: another approach with legacy - when tranistioning from name att
   to id att on A - if have name, must have id and must have same
   value; could require if use BASE elements, that you use XML Base in
   the head set to the same value
   ... if we say the MUST be the same, result is fine

   ??: alternative, i agree

   SP: don't say what happens with name and id, just there for
   backwards compatibility; if say one has priority over the other,
   wouldn't work in legacy browsers; so, just don't do it
   ... should we only put stuff in future versions, or revise past
   versions -- adding to another version of XHTML 1.1

   ??: [couldn't hear, muffled]

   SP: if say have to define base and xml base so that cooperate, don't
   see why shouldn't put into a 1.1 version
   ... no resolution -- needs more discussion on list, especially from
   shane, who proposed it

   agenda item 4: Caption positioning & binding example using WAI-ARIA

     [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0012

   SP: RDF task force developing native RDFa -- working on getting more
   widely accepted
   ... in a sense, can ignore attributes and page still has meaning it
   still had; non-assistive browser can ignore
   ... HTML has rule to ignore attributes don't know about; if get
   added no problem really for HTML; RDFa able to define triples --
   relationships and states -- about attribute proxy that tells
   relationship; sounds like RDFa is coming up with similar mechanism
   ... heads-up to RDFa task force that WAI has set of requirements
   that could be met by RDFa -- simple semantics; links in with role

   <Steven> public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org

   <scribe> ACTION: GJR to explain what WAI ARIA attempting to achieve
   and crossover with RDFa let task force know via
   public-rdfa-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org [recorded in

   TOPIC 3: agenda item 5: Using script to implement namespaces

     [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0009

   SP: people producing javascript libraries that implement a
   particular ML; if have nested XForms in XHTML doc add script to
   implement XForms in a standard browser; great way to get namespaces
   integrated into legacy browsers
   ... don't want UAs that understand namespaces to use script; propose
   attribute for script that tells UA that only reason this script is
   here is that it is implementing a specific function; legacy UA will
   call javascript to call namespace into browser; new UAs will ignor
   ... comments?
   ... good way to get out of CR -- implement parts of XHTML2 in any
   browser with assistance of script

   ??3: How elegant will it be?

   SP: future-proofing browsers

   Roland: seemed reasonable when read it; part of package of things we
   have to query whether UA supports particular namespace


   <Tina> (My connection is poorly - again)

   Roland: if get into this area, are there similar things to talk

   SP: have selectors for media types derived from CSS; turned off if
   current media not matched; turns off element if that namespace is
   ... similar to media queries for stylesheets
   ... put it in queue -- see what response we get
   ... clarification: media queries for any media -- paragraph
   media=print so only used in printed

agenda item 6: Testing XHTML Basic 1.1

   SP: getting XHTML 1.1 out of CR; only thing not tested is target and
   inputmode; how should we go about getting tests into oma test suite

   Yam: testing mobile 1.2 -- current testers will have inputmode 
   tagged so can use in mobile 1.0 and 1.2 -- inputmode tagged can 

   SP: are optional -- ignored for other versions in test suite

   Yam: think will satisfy 1.1 test requirements

   SP: want volunteer to construct test materials for what is not
   currenlty being tested

   Yam: tests actually in test suite, just not invoked if not germane

   SP: possible to get copy of tests?

   Yam: OMA provides URI for test site, test site includes materials 
   for inputmode

   SP: please resend URI to public-xhtml2

   <scribe> ACTION: Yam resend URI of OMA test suite to public-xhtml2
   [recorded in

   SP: should we use namespace name or prefix? ended up writing prefix
   because if no default, needs to be there -- author friendlier;

   Roland: cut-and-paste this script into it and it will work

   SP: cut-and-paste bug-bear for those who fear namespaces
   ... other issues?
   ... away for 3 weeks, be back on call in 4 weeks time
   ... don't forget about Face2face

   <scribe> ScribeNick: oedipus

   <scribe> Scribe: Gregory J. Rosmaita

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: GJR to explain what WAI ARIA attempting to achieve and
   crossover with RDFa let task force know via
   public-rdfa-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: Jan resend URI of OMA test suite to public-xhtml2
   [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: Shane - add input mode to XHTML 1.1 second edition
   [recorded in

   [End of minutes]
Received on Wednesday, 18 July 2007 15:03:28 UTC

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