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Re: long term webid of peter, contrary to rumour

From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:02:53 +0100
Message-ID: <CAKaEYhL49mmRbLzJtx2mLP0GnkUgDfND0amjh1OiisVGg2s_cw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Peter Williams <home_pw@msn.com>
Cc: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>, WebID Incubator Group WG <public-xg-webid@w3.org>
On 14 November 2011 03:06, Peter Williams <home_pw@msn.com> wrote:
> Can we stop personalizing this, like Peter is some evil demon? I feel like a
> chartist, or a catholic, or a Puritan, or a Scot - or whoever else English
> history blamed for the woes of the nation. (personally depressing to me,
> apparently folks are targeting poles, these days).
> I tried to post an rdfa using the modern vocab document to my about page,
> and that was the result. It's a mess, that I cannot expect a machine to
> parse. How do I fix it?
> What do I do to make wordpess host the rdfa I posted (and not strip it all
> out)?
> How do I alternatively stuff an rdf/XML stream into HTML as a data island
> (eg using an object tag)
> Concerning my opera unite endpoint, the whole point is that a uncontracted,
> public client cannot use my time sensitive graph - unless I'm online and I
> choose to release it (under copyright rules that prohibit compilation etc).
> But that is advanced, and experimntal - presaging the day when webid can be
> used for business and commerce).
> As it stands, I first just need to use Wordpress to host a little graph (a
> name and an int...) Ideally those who follow my site (about 1 person) will
> get an email with the graph embedded when i update the post/page, and this
> (pretty common) data flow can drive their id and graph caching when the
> email reader fires up the xHTML handler of the Mac/pc/unix.

There's some track to make RDFa markup simpler using the "property" attribute

http://www.w3.org/QA/2011/11/schemaorg_and_rdfa_11_lite_how.html

>
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 13, 2011, at 2:17 PM, "Henry Story" <henry.story@bblfish.net> wrote:
>
>
> On 13 Nov 2011, at 22:48, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>
> On 11/13/11 3:53 PM, Henry Story wrote:
>
> On 13 Nov 2011, at 21:31, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>
> On 11/13/11 4:48 AM, Henry Story wrote:
>
> On 13 Nov 2011, at 01:52, Peter Williams wrote:
>
> at yorkporc.wordpress.com ive hosted on the blog's front page the site's
> contact page (from wordpress.com). It has in HTML the kind of information
> normally shown in a foaf card. it has my long term webid, hosted on an opera
> unite endpoint. Its not a foaf card like others and neither is the endpoint
> (being only available when I am online).
>
> That's ok. As the spec points out
> ( http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/ ) all that is required for
> WebID is the publication of the public key at that endpoint with some RDF
> markup. (btw, we should perhaps add a link to the W3C how to on publishing
> multiple formats in a content negated format)
>
> Is it about publication of a public key with RDF markup? Is that the
> narrative? If it is, then be up front about it as I am tired of cycling this
> RDF wagon re. the problem it introduces, unnecessarily.
>
> If this is an RDF only solution, say so, and stick to it. Then live with the
> consequences.
>
> Is there an issue you have with the spec? If so please tell us.
>
> I have an issue with narratives the end up with RDF as being inextricable
> re. WebID and its verification protocol. That's what I have an issue with.
> If the spec toes that line, then I have a problem with the spec. If the spec
> is RDF specific then qualify the whole thing as RDF based WebID, nice and
> simple.
>
> We have RDF/XML, Turtle, RDFa markup in html. Where is RDF/XML inextricably
> linked? We speak about the model, and we show the serialisations that are
> widely accepted.
> There has to be a way of telling in follow your nose like manner how to get
> the graph, which does not rely on things like: if the service is called
> Facebook, then do this, but if it is Twitter then do that, and if is some
> other site then do that.
> Or how do you think we should currently work with Peter William's profile?
> Should we perhaps add something to the spec that says if the URL is
> $ curl -i http://home.homepw2.operaunite.com/webserver/content/
> HTTP/1.1 503 Service Unavailable
> Content-type: text/html
> Connection: close
> Server: UniteProxy/0.2.5
> <html><frameset cols="100%"><frame
> src="http://unite.opera.com/general/noservice/homepw2/home/"
> /></frameset></html>
> then we should go to http://yorkporc.wordpress.com/ and read the public key
> there by searching for the "RSA Public Key" string
> and then finding the key by guessing that that's probably a modulus because
> it looks like one?
> And even if we were to find the public key there, we would find that the
> webid does not point to the right place but to a different document that is
> unavailable. But perhaps that's acceptable because the spec should say that
> if its Peter William's site we should have an exception.
> Clearly you are not going to defend such a position. But currently I don't
> see how Peter Williams can claim that he even has a WebID, not in any
> meaningful way related to this group's work.
>
>
> Most implementations I know of now are working with RDF serialisations, so
> those are the ones we should be sticking by initially, as we did from the
> very start.
>
> Again, what on earth does that mean? That there will be a narrative utterly
> laced with that bias? Again, there's nothing wrong with saying: this is RDF
> based WebID etc.. That's better that pretending it isn't be it via spec or
> narrative.
>
> So what do you want the spec to say?
>
> Those serialisations are well documented and clearly specified.
>
> So?
>
> Kingsley
>
>
>
> I see that your WebID Profile Page - as it is called in the spec section 2.3
> - is in html. So I guess it's meant to be parsed as RDFa.
> The RDFa http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/ validation service seems to only
> return a few URLs for your page.
> I don't see that you have specified any of the cert or rsa namespaces so if
> you want to turn that into a WebID you do need to follow the explanation
> here
>   http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/#rdfa-html-notation
> If you find problems or unclarities in any aspect of the spec, please
> explain which part of the text is unclear, and what wording you suggest
> would help improve it.
>
> You are talking syntax again. Can WebID not be discussed conceptually
> without syntax specificity? Is this impossible?
>
> I am talking spec.
> In the future when semantics is more clearly and widely understood then one
> will no longer need to mentions syntax. But at present that is not the case.
> The document is an evolving one.
> Henry
>
>
> Kingsley
>
> Henry
>
>
> I happen to enforce more privacy than perhaps do most consumers (being a
> security type engineer who is experimenting with semantic web ideas, as they
> evolve). I know some folks want foaf cards as public data, cacheable by
> search engines and others maintaining huge triple stores. I dont. I want to
> assert my privacy expectations (becuase in the US, one has no rights until
> they are asserted - this being the way that social laws on privacy happen to
> be structured.) And I do this in ways that may not meet the idealized,
> academically-normalized semantic web concept, which assumes you have public
> documents that anyone can browse, cache, cite from, etc.
>
> Now
>
> does anyone know HOW to make a wordpress contact page embed either
>
> (1) an XML stream, coding up the xml-serializion of a foaf card (e.g. the
> output of foaf.me), or
> (2) the RDFa of a foaf card.
>
> I cannot make either work.
>
> I seem to remember that one was supposed to be able to add  "XML data
> island" as a subelement in HTML (since XHTML is just an XML vocab). One is
> supposed to be able to embed RDFa tags in HTML elements too. Unfortunately,
> the wordpress site strips out what I add (refusing to host them). Ill guess
> that these are default safety options, that can be removed by those who know
> how.
>
> My wordpress blogsite is hosted by wordpress cloud service, not by me on a
> server (im not sufficient competent to run a production server). So, there
> may be less ability to change the configuration to offer RDFa and XML
> embedding, than a site one hosts on a private server.
>
> Social Web Architect
> http://bblfish.net/
>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen	
> President & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>
>
>
>
>
> Social Web Architect
> http://bblfish.net/
>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen	
> President & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>
>
>
>
>
> Social Web Architect
> http://bblfish.net/
>
Received on Monday, 14 November 2011 09:03:32 GMT

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