W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-xg-webid@w3.org > December 2011

Re: Normative vs Informative

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 15:43:20 -0500
Message-ID: <4EECFEE8.40408@openlinksw.com>
To: public-xg-webid@w3.org
On 12/17/11 3:35 PM, Henry Story wrote:
> On 17 Dec 2011, at 21:27, Peter Williams wrote:
>
>> I'm already using a sparql library, in dotnet world. Hosting it and my script on azure cloud might work, almost as is.
> Ok so here we are back to something that has something to do with this thread.
>
> Perhaps you can tell us what library you are using so that we can put it up on the wiki, since
> as you said further down in this thread you cannot do it as it is not WebID enabled(!!)
>
>>> [snip]
>>> Links:
>>>
>>> 1. http://www.dotnetrdf.org/ -- RDF framework for .NET
>>> 2. http://www.dotnetrdf.org/content.asp?pageID=Store%20Manager -- SPARQL part
>>> 3. http://www.dotnetrdf.org/content.asp?pageID=Querying%20with%20SPARQL -- SPARQL contd.
> Ah thanks a lot Kingsley. Here is some useful info to be added to our wiki.
> Perhaps here, perhaps elsewhere. I wonder if it says what formats they support somewhere there?
> Then we should certainly add that to the examples section.
>
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/wiki/WebID_by_examples
>
>
>>> Kingsley
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 17, 2011, at 9:59 AM, "Peter Williams"<home_pw@msn.com>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anyone want to try to run a native windows webid responder?
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know, privately or publicly.
>>>>>
>>>>> The goal is to mint a cert using cert server, type a blog post at blogger, test it with fans, and then retest against a local iis hosted validation agent script doing an ask query.
>>>>>
>>>>> First set it all up in a lab environment. Setup the lab as per the sdk for windows identity framework sample projects. Make those samples work, and be available on the public web. Then, chat to me, and we can addin webid validation to that baseline. Expect to take about 4h, the first time - if you a solid windows developer. Ideally have windows it certifications, so you really know the tool chain.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 17, 2011, at 9:48 AM, "Henry Story"<henry.story@bblfish.net>   wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 17 Dec 2011, at 18:37, Peter Williams wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The legal terms are posted clearly: it's as is. Classical language. Yes I don't buy into web doctrine on licensing. It's as is, and this has worked fine for the last 100 years.
>>>>>> There is no web doctrine. There are just ways people work together. Working with IP that does is not free is what lands you in trouble like this: it becomes difficult to work as a community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I cannot say its public domain as some of the code fragments come from web page Samples (typical sdk help generally) and I don't have the legal skills to evaluate their licenses. For example I learned how to use the San API from some google search result. It just uses Msft classes (that I've paid for), but who know who might claim ip.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's 50 lines of script, plus lots of windows setup. Ideally you would be a certified it admin on windows enterprise (since these are the skills required). I have an mcitp certification, and on cert server  in particular one -does- need that level of expertise/training. It's not for students.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't run a public service on port 80 as my ISP doesn't allow me to (or rather blocks the ports). This is normal in the us, for broadband users. No other reason. Just dealing with reality. (I cannot afford the business class  ISP service that does not prohibit running public servers).
>>>>>> There are quite a few students on this list who have managed to put their web servers up on their own money, or who have bought some hosting service.
>>>>>> I am sure you could put it up on amazon for a little money. They have cloud services with windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So for the moment I see students (Acadmics!) having more sense of enterprise than you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, all of this is irrelevant to the current thread as usual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, someone else can do so. I'm happy to run a 4 h one on one tutorial, so the study is replicated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2011, at 9:22 AM, "Henry Story"<henry.story@bblfish.net>   wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 17 Dec 2011, at 18:11, Peter Williams wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My implementation is on the web. A zip can be mailed to someone making contact, as publicly offered. I'd love someone to repeat the experiment. It can mot br henry, though. S/He needs a browser reading .p12 files, a blogger account, and a professional windows server on a development mode, with uptodate Microsoft tool chain and sdks. The implementation is incomplete, in the sense that not all webid assumptions hold, on the native windows platform.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No I will not do open source. No i will not run a public service (though someone else is free to do so, using my sub routine). While w3c promotes open source validly, many of its members have proprietary business models, and are welcome in w3c.
>>>>>>>> That is true. So you are putting code out on the web under a non open source licence then? If so don't be surprised that nobody looks at it, since in that case they would be beholden to you for not much gain. If you don't have code that is open source then you could put a service up, but you don't want to do that either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Neither do you propose text to make the spec or other documents better.
>>>>>>>> Neither do you come to meetings.
>>>>>>>> Neither do you stop interrupting threads with completely irrelevant topics. (What do academics have to do with the Wiki?)
>>>>>>>> Neither do you stick to your original promise to me to not overwhelm the mailing list with mails from yourself. (I think you produce 50% of e-mails here, please allow others to participate, but thinking before your post. Just ask yourself does what I have to say got anything to do with the thread I am posting to)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stop being a open source bully, Henry. You sound like a stallman, at times. In 3 years, we have made 50 foaf cards, collectively. The debate topics (format wars) are identical To the topics  of 3 years ago. It just goes round and around. The spec is more focussed, but the assumptions seem just as unstable as ever.
>>>>>>>> Sometimes you say it is great. Sometime you say it is unstable. but you never produce anything. Can you please go on holiday. You seem to have been pulled back by the fact that the list was going on without you is my feeling.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We need to get to adoption, and not "do science". If we are doing science projects, we all need to go away for 17 years, as that how long it typically for (true) university research to make it to the mass market.
>>>>>>>> Instead of making some general point like the one above look at the context of what we wrote. What is good is that we are getting an idea of which formats are supported by different platforms. So that helps us move the discussion away from meaningless generalities you love to indulge in, towards some real fact based statements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But now I see what is bothering you. Is that we are moving in a fact based way!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2011, at 8:41 AM, "Henry Story"<henry.story@bblfish.net>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 17 Dec 2011, at 17:05, Peter Williams wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What has another production ready semweb community done?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If this is still at the academic debating/posturing level, it tells me that the technology has not matured - any where on the public web (since format wars like codec wars become unimportant, simply hindering use).
>>>>>>>>>> A few weeks ago you said you were going to leave this list. Last week you said you were going for two weeks.
>>>>>>>>>> Can you please stop being the local drama queen, and just do some coding?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are still waiting for your implementations, open source and running on a service, and testable.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhonen
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 16, 2011, at 6:38 AM, "Henry Story"<henry.story@bblfish.net>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Dec 2011, at 14:53, elf Pavlik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Folks =)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What a intense thread, please check out this very short video first:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EGTETc5oFU
>>>>>>>>>>>> :D
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excerpts from Kingsley Idehen's message of 2011-11-27 23:03:40 +0000:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <snip />
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a simple question for you: who are these massive adopters and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementers of RDF/XML? Who are these people sitting on the side
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waiting to implement a spec that RDF/XML specific? What is there to gain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by all of this? Parser developer satisfaction? If so, who are these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parser developers?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've just looked at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/wiki/Implementations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about making an open pool on all those formats and inviting all the implementers and others who have code in development to express their preferences? I've started list here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/wiki/Implementations#People_working_on_implementations
>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree. The idea is to work from what is working with all of us, and see what implementers want to communicate. We can change what is a MUST as things progress, add new formats, remove others, until at some point it does not become that important anymore. At first these MUSTs are really just there so that people who don't come from semweb spaces, don't get too big a shock.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As for RDF/XML vs Turtle for example it's really a question how the linked data community feels. If they feel it's time to move
>>>>>>>>>>>> then we could make that move.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ho Ho Ha Ha Ha ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>> You have it right. These MUSTs are there as a clever joke :D
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ho Ho Ha Ha !
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hehehehehe....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~ elf Pavlik ~
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (living strictly moneyless already for over 2 years)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://moneyless.info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hackers4peace.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Social Web Architect
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://bblfish.net/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Social Web Architect
>>>>>>>>>> http://bblfish.net/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Social Web Architect
>>>>>>>> http://bblfish.net/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Social Web Architect
>>>>>> http://bblfish.net/
>>>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen
>>> Founder&   CEO
>>> OpenLink Software
>>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> Social Web Architect
> http://bblfish.net/
>
>
>

Note: 
http://www.dotnetrdf.org/content.asp?pageID=Inference%20and%20Reasoning .

So you can safely assume: Turtle, N3, and RDF/XML are supported .


Peter: nothing stops you putting a proxy URL in the middle [1] re. 
transformation of RDFa or Microdata resources into the representation of 
your choice.

Links:

1. http://uriburner.com
2. http://triplr.org/
3. others.

-- 

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	
Founder&  CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen








Received on Saturday, 17 December 2011 20:44:35 GMT

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