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RE: [URW3 public] OWL extensions [was Re: [URW3] ... three questions based on the last telecon]

From: Mike Pool <mpool@convera.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:28:47 -0400
Message-ID: <6B1CD4A11E730446897E4715B119338A4317C2@vnmail.convera.com>
To: "Giorgos Stoilos" <gstoil@image.ece.ntua.gr>, "Ken Laskey" <klaskey@mitre.org>, <Peter.Vojtas@mff.cuni.cz>
Cc: <public-xg-urw3@w3.org>

Ken, 

Are you talking about extensions to the ontology that we're using
internally for use case annotation, i.e.,
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/urw3/wiki/UncertaintyOntology?action=At
tachFile&do=get&target=Uncertainty.owl?

If so, I think we should all be given a deadline to approve this as the
"final rough draft" version before we impose such a high threshold on
adding extensions.  

Giorgos, I'm a bit puzzled by your response to the proposed extension,
but possibly because I misunderstand what is being proposed or the
intended usage of the ontology.  We weren't suggesting that the ontology
we're using for use case annotation be proposed as an OWL extension for
w3c approval and universal usage, were we?   If not, I don't think we
need to worry too much about whether or not extant tool sets can process
it or whether it will meet with universal approbation, do we?
 
(That aside, in the end, I think it's counterproductive for us to
constrain ourselves with an eye to what will fit easily within the
current OWL standards.  We should at least allow ourselves the room to
draw the conclusion that it's entirely inadequate if that's what the
evidence and analysis suggests.)

Best regards,

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: public-xg-urw3-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-xg-urw3-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Giorgos Stoilos
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:30 PM
To: 'Ken Laskey'; Peter.Vojtas@mff.cuni.cz
Cc: public-xg-urw3@w3.org
Subject: RE: [URW3 public] OWL extensions [was Re: [URW3] ... three
questions based on the last telecon]


Hi Ken,

This sounds reasonable enough. But let me also stress another issue.

A proposed extension should be as minimal as possible in order to enjoy
acceptance by the non-uncertainty community and persuade people that it
could be adopted in their tools with a minimal effort. So also replying
to
Peter's mail, I do not agree with extensions like owl_ursw:usualy_oneOf,
owl_ursw:often_oneOf, owl_ursw:probably_subClassOf, which to me do not
seem
minimal. 

-gstoil

> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-xg-urw3-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-xg-urw3-request@w3.org]
> On Behalf Of Ken Laskey
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:02 PM
> To: Peter.Vojtas@mff.cuni.cz
> Cc: public-xg-urw3@w3.org
> Subject: [URW3 public] OWL extensions [was Re: [URW3] ... three
questions
> based on the last telecon]
> 
> 
> Let me make a suggestion of a minimum criteria for adding extensions:
> 
> an extension can be proposed only if you can show its use in the
> context of an already discussed use case.
> 
> This is motivated by several thoughts:
> 1. we will have solid examples of the extension;
> 2. we can more easily compare value of the extension against others
> proposed;
> 3. we move forward our analysis of the use cases;
> 4. if proposed extensions can be demonstrated only in the context of
> use cases already discussed, some of you will have the motivation to
> volunteer for leading the discussion at future telecons :-)
> 
> Do we have agreement on this proposal?
> 
> Ken
> 
> P.S. per survey results, I will be setting up telecons for August 1,
> August 22, September 5, and September 19.
> 
> On Jul 18, 2007, at 7:20 AM, Peter Vojtas wrote:
> 
> >
> > Colleagues,
> >            let me note that this wonderfull discussion has started
by
> > questions about the nature of "sentence" and "proposition", and I
have
> > added a word used by W3C documents "statement" and as an example a
> > triple. Of course a RIF rule can be also a subject to attachment of
an
> > uncertainty.
> >      I think this can be satisfactory solved by using current W3C
> > standards and interpretation of them.
> >
> >      Now the problem has shifted a little bit further, to ontology.
My
> > impression is that we need to have some (easy) examples in the
begining
> > (Ken already assigned some sentences in his use case by uncertainty
> > type
> > and nature).
> >      I like Mitch's ontology and so far only few extensions were
> > sugested - to have properties includesSentence, isaboutSentence and
a
> > new sort of uncertainty models namely Similarity (maybe some other
will
> > appear later - what are our criteria to enter new elements to
> > ontology).
> > The reification discussion was only an example from my part, and can
> > be soved
> > by Uncertainty has_derivation objective/subjective.
> >
> >      I have also an idea and would like to ask ou for opinion. Most
of
> > Ontological knowledge is described by expressions about being an
> > element
> > and being a subset (equal to), e.g.
> >
> > owl:oneOf, rdf:type, ... rdfs:subClassOf, ...
> >
> > what do you think about extensions like
> >
> > owl_ursw:usualy_oneOf, owl_ursw:often_oneOf,
> > owl_ursw:probably_subClassOf
> >
> > or we are just going to assign uncertainty to the statement
> > A rdf:type B, C rdfs:subClassOf D, ...
> >
> > I agree that sentences can be structured by logical connectives, and
I
> > would be here very flexible and allow also fuzzy aggregation
> > operators.
> >
> > On the one side we are not going to specify syntax but we have to
show
> > current standards are not necessary (of course not because of the
> > syntax of current standards - using W3C syntax we have in mind that
> > their semantics does not suffice)
> >
> > Greetings Peter
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Ken Laskey
> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305      phone: 703-983-7934
> 7151 Colshire Drive                         fax:       703-983-1379
> McLean VA 22102-7508
Received on Wednesday, 18 July 2007 18:28:57 GMT

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