W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-xg-socialweb@w3.org > October 2009

Social Web Telecon Minutes: Sept 30th

From: Harry Halpin <hhalpin@ibiblio.org>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 18:07:27 +0100
Message-ID: <b3be92a00910021007n28fd3d71k902abf808506437e@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-xg-socialweb@w3.org
HTML: http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html

30 Sep 2009

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          danbri, DKA, jsalvachua, rreck, tpa,mischat,hajons FabGandon,
          Carine, petef, peter st. audre, hhalpin, MacTed, bblfish,
          melvster, rreck

   Regrets
   Chair
          hhalpin

   Scribe
          mischat

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-09-30T13:00-15:00Z
         2. [5]General Organization
         3. [6]Invited Guest Invitations
         4. [7]user stories
         5. [8]Peter St. Andre of XMPP
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <trackbot> Date: 30 September 2009

   <tpa> Hi guys, I'm sorry I'm going to have to miss this one, there
   seems to be no signal at all where I'm at today.

   <hhalpin> no problem tpa

   <hhalpin> did you check in with henry story yet?

   <tpa> hhalpin: we're supposed to do it sometime this week

   <tpa> hhalpin: we should also talk at some point, off-weekly call
   and confer about the use cases and the resulting document we're
   aiming for?

   <tpa> I guess we'll figure that out at a more convenient time, I'll
   be emailing you.

   <hhalpin> ?

   <melvster> hhalpin: i think you got the wrong phone handle

   <melvster> ill redail in

   <hhalpin> ?

   <melvster> i think i was ??P13

   <melvster> i hung up and it said -hhalpin

   <bblfish> hi

   <hhalpin> ?

   hello all

Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-09-30T13:00-15:00Z

   <hhalpin> zakim agenda+ General Organization

   <hhalpin> zakim agenda+ Invited Guest - Peter St. Andre on XMPP

   i can scribe

   <hhalpin> scribe: mischat

   <hhalpin> ROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 23rd September 2009
   as a true record plus adding rreck

   <hhalpin> PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 23rd September 2009
   as a true record plus adding rreck

   <hhalpin> RESOLVED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 23rd September 2009
   as a true record plus adding rreck

   <hhalpin> PROPOSED: to meet again Wed. October 7th

   <rreck> +1 meet again

   <hhalpin> Next Wed is Evan from OpenMicroblogging.

   <hhalpin> Also requested we move things 2 hours back if possible.

   <petef> +1

   evan request for 2 hours back

   <danbri> (back meaning forward :)

   <danbri> later

   <petef> into the future

   <hhalpin> Moving meeting to 13:00UTC

   <danbri> back to the future :)

   moving meeting to 13:00 UTC

   <petef> Already 13:00 UTC

   <danbri> i support moving it

   <tinkster> It's already 13:00 UTC.

   <petef> move to 15:00 UTC

   <hhalpin> Moving meeting to 15:00UTC

   <danbri> everyone is confused around timezones anyhow, this time of
   year

   <hhalpin> If we don't get any objetions

   <rreck> +1 move meeting time to 15:00UTC

   <hhalpin> then move next meeting to 15:00UTC.

   <jsalvachua> +1

   <tinkster> I'm happy with 15:00 UTC for next week (and indeed,
   generally).

   harry to ask the list this week, if no objections we move to 15:00
   UTC

   +1

   <bblfish> no

   <hhalpin> RESOLVED: Unless objections from list, telecons moved to
   15:00 UTC from now on.

   <danbri> are we expecting stpeter now?

   <bblfish> problem

   <danbri> ok

General Organization

   <tinkster> bblfish, is that "no. problem." or "no problem."

   <hhalpin> Technical Plenary?

   <hhalpin> Whose going to technical plenary?

   <bblfish> no problem. or +1

   <FabGandon> going

   <bblfish> I should be going

   <danbri> i can't make it

   <petef> not me

   <tinkster> not me

   not me

   <melvster> not me

   <jsalvachua> not me ;(

   <AndreaP> not me

   <hajons> don't know yet

   <danbri> (i did talk to Kevin Marks about possibility of him
   talking; passed that on to harry/ian)

   henry, fabien are going

   <hhalpin> you should register asap, the calendar is correct now.

   <hhalpin> I know you DKA

   if people want to go they should register asap

   <hhalpin> and then's this open social web day.

   <hhalpin> Is anyone going to Internet Identity Workshop?

   <FabGandon> not going to IIW

   <hajons> probably

   <hhalpin> Which is right afterwards...

   which is right after the technical plenary

   <petef> nope

   <hhalpin> ok just checking in...

   <jsalvachua> not me

   registration fees are going up for the IIW

   so if you want to go then you should get on it asap

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation
   conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C
   members. [recorded in
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action01]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] Mischa to describe/implement a report
   of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end
   of the XG. [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action02]

Invited Guest Invitations

   <hhalpin> Opera/Widgets/OpenSocial?

   i will get mine done soon, I have been recovering from submitting
   thesis this last week

   danbri is a technically a bad person :)

   has anyone looked at the activity streams work ?

   <hhalpin> [12]http://wiki.activitystrea.ms/

     [12] http://wiki.activitystrea.ms/

   <petef> I have had a brief look

   <hajons> me too

   <petef> Happy to look deeper and perhaps write a summary for the
   wiki

   hasn't danbri looked at it in the notube work ?

   <hajons> opensocial and activity streams are looking to align

   <hhalpin> I think it's definitely worth summarziing for the wiki and
   yes it is aligning to opensocial.

   harry thinks it would be good for some to host a session on the
   activity streams work

   <hhalpin> ACTION: Harry to invite Ben Laurie from OAuth/Google Wave
   security to W3C Social Web talk [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-92 - Invite Ben Laurie from OAuth/Google
   Wave security to W3C Social Web talk [on Harry Halpin - due
   2009-10-07].

   <petef> Do we have Chris Messina on the invite list already?

   who spoke ?

   <petef> petef

   <danbri> +1 for having it in the final report at least, and seems
   good to invite them to present

   <hhalpin> ACTION: petef to look into activitystreams invite, maybe
   Chris Messina [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - petef

   +1 to having on the final report

   <hhalpin> ACTION: pferne to look into activitystreams invite, maybe
   Chris Messina [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-93 - Look into activitystreams invite,
   maybe Chris Messina [on Peter Ferne - due 2009-10-07].

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] cperey to book global lockbox as an
   invited speaker [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action06]

   i will get the mail out to the BBC persian people

   please do :)

   <hhalpin> ACTION: mischat to invite BBC Persia people to talk about
   their use of social media [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action07]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - mischat

   <hhalpin> ACTION: mtuffield to invite BBC Persia people to talk
   about their use of social media [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action08]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - mtuffield

   mtiffiel

   spelt wrong

   :)

   swh's fault

   <hhalpin> ACTION: mtiffiel to invite BBC Persia people to talk about
   their use of social media [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action09]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-94 - Invite BBC Persia people to talk
   about their use of social media [on Mischa Tuffield - due
   2009-10-07].

user stories

   <hhalpin> Quick note Christine on Open Social Web day?

   re user stories, oshani is away today

   <danbri> oof
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests
   takes a while to load

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests

   <hhalpin> cool!

   Christine has talked to Dan, re : OPen Social Web day. Dan to add to
   the wiki, and will be setting up an eventbrite for the event

   a conference call is scheduled for this coming friday

   there is a need for some more marketing to happen

   henry, just an email confirmation that the auditorium has been
   booked along with

   <hhalpin> good news!

   projectors, wifi, and stuff

   <hhalpin> ?

   harry had a question about the user stories, perhaps they are too
   complicated

   <hhalpin> it would nice to get user story doc done between TPAC

   <hhalpin> sorry before TPAC!

   christine has taken a high level ID, so that the use cases can be
   clustered

   <hhalpin> is this work online?

   high level concepts to classify the user stories

   for organisational purposes

   christine to check if she can get the document she was been working
   on online

   <rreck> please do

   so christine will aim to share the structure she has built with the
   groups

   <cperey> yes

   <hhalpin> Goal, Summary, Actors, Preconditions, Trigger, Basic
   Course of Events, Alternative Paths, postconditons, business rules
   and then metadata about author/date.

   at the moment we have goals, actions, triggers, ...

   thanks harry

   <hhalpin> remove some ofit.

   harry would like to remove of it

   harry thinks it is a bit too complicated at the moment

   <rreck> +1 summary

   harry would like to get some summaries and pre-conditions up

   <rreck> -1 business rules

   <bblfish> Just as interest, here is a very developed set of user
   stories for the future of identity
   [21]http://www.fidis.net/resources/identity-revolution/ with real
   stories. Clearly we don't need to go that far. But it is an
   interesting example

     [21] http://www.fidis.net/resources/identity-revolution/

   simplify the use stories to 3 parts

   <petef> +1 for simplification

   summary, pre-conditions, post-conditions ?

   <rreck> i think actors is self evident possibly

   can you repeat that hhalpin ?

   <hhalpin> pre-condition/basic course of events/goal accomplished
   (maybe alternative paths)?

   thanks

   <hhalpin> So just have 3 categories for every use-case.

   +1

   <bblfish> seems ok

   i am happy to go through and summarise if need be

   <bblfish> ok. I am in the same offices as tim right now

   bblfish: i didn't get any of that

   <hajons> breaking up

   you were breaking up

   <bblfish> YEs, the link is here
   [22]http://www.fidis.net/resources/identity-revolution/

     [22] http://www.fidis.net/resources/identity-revolution/

   <bblfish> looks like a fashion magazine

Peter St. Andre of XMPP

   bblfish: saw this at the social web camp.

   <bblfish> but it's called "Identity Revolution - Multi Disclipinary
   Perspectives"

   <bblfish> very developed user stories on identity with very in depth
   characters

   xmpp, and how it can be integrated from the social web

   <hhalpin> Peter go for it!

   and how it will fit in with the w3c and the wider community

   people which are interested in microblogging, buddy cloud

   <hhalpin> the relationship with OMB would be interesting.

   trying to figure out what problems the SWXG are trying to solve

   and how the XMPP community can help

   the SWXG has noticed that the W3C has ignored the social web tech

   and the group wants to write an introductory report on the landscape
   of technologies in the social web

   for example the widgets work, and the open social work, and how this
   is pushing towards the notion of a decentralised social network

   so the group would like to figure how the W3C can help influence
   future development on the social Web

   and the group is interested in how the technologies can be built
   upon, technologies like openid, oauth, xmpp

   <hhalpin> (sorry, should have went through them one at a time!)

   xmpp grew out of instance messaging

   instant

   the initial idea was to build ontop of XML, taking the ideas of
   Jabber and building on XML to build a stream

   <hhalpin> 1. Final Report on over-arching technologies 2. Adoption
   of social web technologies by W3C internally 3. How the W3C should
   evolve to interact with the wider social web commuity

   the idea was to have a peer-2-peer based method of shifting xml
   between points on the web

   <hhalpin> so it started out very general purpose

   <hhalpin> that's interesting

   xmpp was designed be a generalised transport mechanism

   <danbri> see
   [23]http://metajack.im/2008/11/21/chesspark_design_details_part_1_wh
   y_xmpp/

     [23] http://metajack.im/2008/11/21/chesspark_design_details_part_1_why_xmpp/

   rpc technology, some gaming, file sharing, file sharing, google wave

   are all built on top of xmpp

   <danbri> and
   [24]http://metajack.im/2009/03/12/awesome-demo-of-real-time-xmpp-pow
   ered-app/

     [24] http://metajack.im/2009/03/12/awesome-demo-of-real-time-xmpp-powered-app/

   <danbri> re google talk see
   [25]http://code.google.com/apis/talk/jep_extensions/extensions.html

     [25] http://code.google.com/apis/talk/jep_extensions/extensions.html

   google talk using xmpp for their signalling channel to set up voice
   and video calls

   <danbri> (google talk basic text messages are themselves xmpp)

   there is a standards body

   <danbri> re social, ... see
   [26]http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/social

     [26] http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/social

   pidgin is implementing an open-source xmpp

   <hhalpin> how oauth and openid fit in with XMPP is quite
   interesting.

   <danbri> oauth - [27]http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0235.html

     [27] http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0235.html

   plans are afoot to use oauth and xmpp

   <danbri> fireeagle and xmpp see
   [28]http://fireeagle.yahoo.net/developer/documentation/xmpp_faq

     [28] http://fireeagle.yahoo.net/developer/documentation/xmpp_faq

   this is used in fireeagle

   <danbri> (also not mentioned but hey... rdf query over xmpp -
   [29]http://svn.foaf-project.org/foaftown/jqbus/intro.html )

     [29] http://svn.foaf-project.org/foaftown/jqbus/intro.html

   <hhalpin> I thought it switched from polling to pushing...

   polling is a problem on services, and xmpp fixes this by pushing

   this technology is becoming popular for real time search

   this can save service providers on hardware wear and tear

   apple is doing some experiments with push for their iphone tech

   <hhalpin> [30]http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html

     [30] http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html

   <hhalpin> Is pubsub

   <hhalpin> (I think)

   there is work in the xmpp community on the transport tech side, but
   there isn't much movement in the development of social software

   <stpeter> hhalpin: that is correct

   <hhalpin> Good overview

   <hhalpin> go for danbri!

   perhaps the w3c would be a place where the xmpp could integrate with
   social web people

   <danbri> q re MUC (multi user chat)

   danbri question : lots of people are stuck in the IRC world, and IM
   chats are advancing faster than multi user chat

   so there is xmpp work in an online chat room chess game? and this
   builds upon a multi user chat room

   MUC could be used for real-time modeling of a XML sequence, could be
   used to collaboratively write documents

   xmpp has some strong points ;

   XML, a good thing, we fixed some security issues which IRC had

   <hhalpin> one question would be if XMPP should at some point replace
   IRC as a communication point for W3C.

   <tinkster> hmmm... create a MUC, invite validator@xmpp.w3.org and
   start working on XHTML snippets...

   <hhalpin> yes, this might be an effective way of working although
   the W3C has a lot of infrastructure invested in IRC.

   xmpp has a cert based authentication

   and doesn't reveal your IP address as in IRC

   there is ongoing work to distribute rooms over a network so that if
   a peer goes down

   xmpp community haven't tried to get rid off IRC, or other tech

   collaborative point of view, you can send structure data, you could
   have forms pop up for voting

   dod ?

   <hhalpin> department of defence mischat

   xmpp is the only approved chat mechanism for the dod

   <hhalpin> part of the usa government

   IRC had too many security issues, and the dod are moving to use XMPP
   group chat

   <hhalpin> native prescence +1

   and we have a link to the chess game ?

   <petef> [31]http://www.chesspark.com/

     [31] http://www.chesspark.com/

   XMPP has support for native presence information, and for network
   availability

   <hajons> +q

   <caribou> audience segregation for presence?

   presence information is not on IRC

   <melvster> pidgin handles both irc and xmpp -- im using it now ...

   <tinkster> Well, I'm currently on Pidgin which does both IRC and
   XMPP chats.

   so when the distributed room problem gets solved in xmpp then it may
   be a viable replacement for IRC

   <stpeter> [32]http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/distributedmuc.html

     [32] http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/distributedmuc.html

   i too use pidgin

   there is lot of ongoing work on the xmpp front to build towards the
   distributed muc

   lots of open source implementations

   there are projects which are working on clustering and high
   availability for high volumes of users

   <danbri> prosody.im

   thanks

   the prosody project is having a go at the distributedmuc

   <hhalpin> hajons?

   hajons, now that xmpp is standardised, do you think that big
   companies like google will not implement the standard?

   <hhalpin> hajons asked about standards now that XMPP is being used
   in Google Wave etc.

   xmpp which used to be called jabber, came about 10 years ago,
   distributed comms model, and the exchange of XML turned it into XMPP

   rfc came about in 2004

   since the work was put into the rfc, people can now write their own
   implementations

   <rreck> who would have ever thought standards could promote
   interoperability?

   google talk extended the spec for the video signalling

   jingle work was very similar to google talk

   and the jingle tech is now in the xmpp specs, and google are now
   looking to harmonise the open-source implementations of jingle with
   their google talk

   still early days in google wave. google wave are trying to develop
   the technology in the open, which was different to the google talk.
   google talk was implemented and then it was released in the wild

   <hhalpin> Do people mind extending the call 15-20 minutes to deal
   with questions?

   <rreck> +1 extend, but i may have to drop

   <hajons> +1

   xmpp is a good community of people, and they are standardisation
   friendly

   <jsalvachua> +1 extend

   <hajons> +q

   harry question : are there plans for the xmpp auth to be integrated
   with openid

   and second question, will xmpp integrate with the TLS?

   <hhalpin> ah, that clears things up a bit from the outside.

   <danbri> (interesting, i was wondering whether foaf:jabberID needed
   updating)

   xmpp has always used ssl for encryption

   <hhalpin> starTLS to upgrade a port to encryption - but that's
   per-hop not end-to-end (i.e. OTR?)

   since 2004, there has been a start_tls command, which is a per hop
   encrypted

   encryption

   <bblfish> very cool: start with TLS and upgrade to encrypted when
   you want encryption. Should use this for foaf+ssl :-)

   it is possible that there is clear-text on the server

   <tinkster> bblfish, HTTP/HTTPS doesn't allow upgrades to encrypted
   connections on the same port.

   as the moment there is no end-to-end encryption

   <hhalpin> what's the issues with OTR?

   they have looked at pptp

   and have looked smime

   <hhalpin> so just go end-to-end TLS

   but people dont have certs, so they have looked a tls, and how it
   can be reworked to do end-end encryption

   <hhalpin> OTR is a bit of a hack with weird signalling...can only
   encrypt plain text message.

   in OTR you can only encrypt the plain text messages

   <hhalpin> Doesn't encrypt the rest of the XML

   <bblfish> tinkster: I thought that is what peter said

   <hhalpin> ah, that makes a lot of sense

   for example you can only encrypt the message body, e.g. "Hello
   World"

   not the whole XML message

   OTR does not give end-to-end security

   there are issues with certs

   <hhalpin> encrypted group chat end-to-end?

   <hhalpin> very hard problem.

   for doing end-to-end group is a hard problem

   <hhalpin> the default w3c chat is not encrypted

   <hhalpin> so it's still in the scope but in the future

   <hhalpin> room itself with certifcate?

   <danbri> [33]http://silcnet.org/

     [33] http://silcnet.org/

   <tinkster> GPG allows messages to be encrypted to multiple users.

   first to work on end-to-end encryption, and then there will be work
   on the group chat encryption

   question petef. Google Waves server - server federation is xmpp,
   will anymore of it be based on xmpp

   <tinkster> multiuser_encypted_message = concat(
   encrypt(plaintext_message, random_key), encrypt(random_key,
   recip1_key), encrypt(random_key, recip2_key), encrypt(random_key,
   recip3_key), ...)

   <petef> "special google magic" :-)

   <hajons> protobuf

   discussion to have xmpp version of the client - server xmpp is not
   high on google's todo list

   <hajons> [34]http://code.google.com/p/protobuf/

     [34] http://code.google.com/p/protobuf/

   the wave server is no based on xmpp

   not for client-server

   but they use it for server - server comms

   xmpp does federation well very, xmpp does it server-server encrypted
   comms well

   quite a few xmpp mobile clients

   nokia are doing work on xmpp (hajons are there any links?)

   there are questions to how effecient xmpp is, due to long lived tcp
   connection

   90% of traffic in an IM environment

   is presense

   presence

   not chat

   there are ways to manage presence information in xmpp, so that you
   dont have to receive presence data continuously

   <hajons> [35]http://betalabs.nokia.com/betas/view/nokia-chat

     [35] http://betalabs.nokia.com/betas/view/nokia-chat

   there is work underway todo diff's on the information sent across to
   to clients

   ovi.com

   [36]http://ovi.com (nokia system for mobile stuff)

     [36] http://ovi.com/

   thank hajons

   thans

   buddlyclowd etc

   <rreck> gtg, thanks peter.

   google talk for andriod apparently doesn't use xmpp

   <petef> [37]http://buddycloud.com

     [37] http://buddycloud.com/

   so there was a google talk service which was a developer back
   channel on andriod, which is built ontop of google talk, which is
   xmpp.

   remote scripting opens up security holes

   <hhalpin> basically, Google Android doesn't actually do XMPP despite
   the fact that's its heavily requested

   henry is asking about client side authenication based on certs
   (foaf+ssl)

   xmpp is uses SASL external (dont know what the tech is), which
   enables xmpp to use client based certs

   <hhalpin> x509 certificates is the key issue as most people don't
   have them - although everyone does have a social networking page :)

   this is used by the army, because they all have certs, allowing for
   X.509 certs

   thanks tinkster :)

   <pchampin> sounds like a pretty good idea!

   the aim is to have your client create a cert, which it could be used
   to do end-to-end encryption

   <pchampin> (rather than having pidgin storing all our passwords
   cleartext...)

   pchampin: pidgin is very naughty like that

   in foaf+ssl, your cert is assigned to a URI, which is resolvable

   foaf+ssl allows for a decentralised social network

   with danbri's jqbus now

   maybe

   [38]http://svn.foaf-project.org/foaftown/jqbus/intro.html

     [38] http://svn.foaf-project.org/foaftown/jqbus/intro.html

   <danbri> [39]http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0154.html has vcard,
   foaf etc stuff

     [39] http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0154.html

   harry question : what could do the W3C do in this community to help
   take the xmpp work forward ?

   <hhalpin> the answer can be done over e-mail :)

   <hhalpin> I would assume membership is a huge barrier

   <pchampin> have to go now; thanks a lot to Peter

   <stpeter> [40]http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0071.html

     [40] http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0071.html

   <caribou> coordination is better at group level

   peter said that there is potential for collaboration between xmpp
   and the SWXG

   sorry

   <danbri> [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter
   ("The chairs will strive to make sure that W3C membership is not a
   problem for independent, student and low-wage members, while noting
   that employees of larger companies are typically expected by W3C to
   encourage their employer to join W3C.")

     [41] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter

   oauth to become a standard soon

   <hhalpin> via IETF and cultural question

   <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask about vcard and to

   <hhalpin> probably the w3c's best role is to verify things that come
   out of running code and communities.

   <hhalpin> mischa?

   sorry, i keep being called by people at work

   <hhalpin> basically, people in social web realm have a big cultural
   difference

   <hhalpin> w3c needs to get closer to running code

   <hhalpin> danbri: protocols with security are the way to go

   <hhalpin> danbri: for standards body

   <hhalpin> danbri: but schemas should be informal

   <hhalpin> can we build hackfests into our program

   <danbri> i mean, if you're doing a protocol, it needs more review
   and formality than making a descriptive schema

   <danbri> +1 re hackfests

   schemas may best be built informally, like at a hack fest, where at
   protocols tend to need more effort, and as a result might need a
   working group

   <hhalpin> how can we get this energy channelled

   <hhalpin> back to running code

   <hhalpin> thanks alot!

   pete thinks this is exciting, and he will get people from his group
   to try and get involved with the SWXG

   <danbri> thanks stpeter!

   hhalpin: i will do it

   <hhalpin> ACTION: mischa to write up Peter's talk on XMPP [recorded
   in [42]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action10]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-95 - Write up Peter's talk on XMPP [on
   Mischa Tuffield - due 2009-10-07].

   bye all

   <hhalpin> Meeting adjourned

   <danbri> re future meetings, i circulated
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/WidgetsDiscussio
   n and got positive feedback from David Recordon and Joseph Smarr

     [43] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/WidgetsDiscussion

   <hajons> bye

   <melvster> thanks!

   <hhalpin> rrsrrsagent, create minutes

   <hhalpin> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Harry to invite Ben Laurie from OAuth/Google Wave
   security to W3C Social Web talk [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: mischa to write up Peter's talk on XMPP [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action10]
   [NEW] ACTION: mischat to invite BBC Persia people to talk about
   their use of social media [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action07]
   [NEW] ACTION: mtiffiel to invite BBC Persia people to talk about
   their use of social media [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action09]
   [NEW] ACTION: mtuffield to invite BBC Persia people to talk about
   their use of social media [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: petef to look into activitystreams invite, maybe Chris
   Messina [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: pferne to look into activitystreams invite, maybe
   Chris Messina [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action05]

   [PENDING] ACTION: cperey to book global lockbox as an invited
   speaker [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action06]
   [PENDING] ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation
   in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members.
   [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action01]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and
   conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG.
   [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-swxg-minutes.html#action02]

   [End of minutes]
Received on Friday, 2 October 2009 17:08:03 GMT

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