W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-xg-socialweb@w3.org > August 2009

Minutes: Social Web Telecon July 29th

From: Harry Halpin <hhalpin@ibiblio.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:58:39 +0100
Message-ID: <b3be92a00908031058i731e2590y2d52422773b5ec47@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-xg-socialweb@w3.org
HTML: http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html

Attendees

   Present:
          Somehow Zakim missed these...

   Regrets
          ditto...

   Chair
          Harry

   Scribe
          mattroweshow

Contents

     * [4]Topics
     * [5]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <PhilA2> E-mail about last week's minutes is at
   [6]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Jul/0
   100.html

      [6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Jul/0100.html

   <PhilA2> Actual minutes are at
   [7]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/22-swxg-minutes.html

      [7] http://www.w3.org/2009/07/22-swxg-minutes.html

   <PhilA2> which reminds me - just checking that RRS Agent and Zakim
   are both here...

   <hhalpin> Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-07-29T13:00-15:00Z


   <PhilA2> Meeting: SWXG Weekly Telecon

   <hhalpin> RESOLVED: Vacation till August 19th, assuming Nathan Eagle
   can be rebooked till then.

   hhalpin: provisional vacation will 19th august

   <hhalpin> 2. General Organization and Task Forces

   <rreck> i thought metrics was a great discussion

   <rreck> clean up actions +1

   <hhalpin> Which order to do agenda?

   <hhalpin> Note, we need someone to summarize last telecon (Gypsii
   and cperey on metrics) for final report.

   hhalpin: can someone summarise the gypssii session?

   <rreck> i dont think im prepared

   rreck: had discussions about SNS but now summarise Gypsii

   <rreck> basically its a challenge to do so

   <hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to summarize metrics and gypsii talk
   [recorded in
   [9]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Summarize metrics and gypsii talk [on
   Harry Halpin - due 2009-08-05].

   hhalpin: to summarise gypsii

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] Mischa to write up Soren and
   Jonathan's findings from last telecon for final report. [recorded in
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action02]

   <hhalpin> #

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation
   conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C
   members. [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action03]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri circulate wookie proposal to
   the xg [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action04]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] Mischa to describe/implement a report
   of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end
   of the XG. [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action05]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] hhalpin to have
   [14]http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf would refer to the new version,
   there will be a 'previous version' link to the current one [recorded
   in [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action06]

     [14] http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf

   <hhalpin> Dealing with member-only bits on homepage...

   <hhalpin> that there's lots of "member-only" sections which Kaliya
   felt might alienate people

   <melvster> membership list is public and private

   <melvster> there's a public version

   <hhalpin> oh where's the public version?

   <melvster> and a private version with email etc.

   <rreck> we can move the participants aspects to be less salient on
   the web

   <melvster> one sec

   <melvster> it's linked from the private version ...

   hhalpin: clean up the web page

   <hhalpin> ACTION: take action to clean up the web-page and make it
   less intimidating to those who aren't members [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action07]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - take

   <rreck> i think pointing out how the public can benefits from our
   activities on the web might be more "inviting"

   <hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin take action to clean up the web-page and
   make it less intimidating to those who aren't members [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action08]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-62 - Take action to clean up the web-page
   and make it less intimidating to those who aren't members [on Harry
   Halpin - due 2009-08-05].

   hhalpin: make it less intimidating

   <rreck> we have new theme music

   <hhalpin> 3. User Stories

   hhalpin: go through user stories

   <rreck> i actually have a new one i can document

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] adam to write up the boeing use case
   for enterprise social networks [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action09]

   <melvster>
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=43434&public=1

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=43434&public=1

   <rreck> actually 2 !

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] hhalpin to write up the social network
   data exchange story [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action10]

   <hhalpin> Can you explain them rreck?

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] tpa to look for similar use cases list
   to expand ours [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action11]

   rreck: friend published photos on facebook

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] tinkster to add user story along lines
   of... if you enable import of contacts from other sites, then it
   lowers the barrier to entry for new people signing up at your site,
   hence get more users, hence get more advertising revenue. [recorded
   in [22]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action12]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri to write up orkut/i18n/"looking
   for" issue [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action13]

   rreck: spoke to friend to alter photo settings, and didn't agree
   with how the pics were used
   ... supporting SNS, problem faced is more paid propaganda. Matrix to
   determine the messages, whether the messages are propaganda or not

   <melvster> 50 Cent Army
   [24]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party

     [24] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party

   <hhalpin> Do you want to take an action to do those?

   rreck: chinese govn' pays party personal to put up info
   ... discrete disagreement by integrating into discussions

   <karl> I wonder how chinese gov actions in social networks is any
   different than marketing companies, brand management or obama
   campaign?

   <PhilA2> interesting (and scary)

   <MacTed> s/shill for government/shill/ -- "tweet for pay" is a
   similar new thing; "payola" among radio DJs is a longer term similar
   issue...

   rreck: provide a platform without cencorship

   they sound really good

   <PhilA2> ACTION: rreck to write up use case based on situation
   [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action14]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-63 - Write up use case based on situation
   [on Ronald Reck - due 2009-08-05].

   <hhalpin> (chinese?)

   <MacTed> "shill case" :-)

   sorry closed window by accident

   <PhilA2> ACTION: rreck to write up use case based on shill case
   [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action15]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-64 - Write up use case based on shill case
   [on Ronald Reck - due 2009-08-05].

   <PhilA2> close ACTION-63

   <trackbot> ACTION-63 Write up use case based on situation closed

   hhalpin: clean up use case docs

   <hhalpin> yes?

   <hhalpin> I can hear you.

   hhalpin: categorise use cases and user stories to make them more
   legible

   fabgondon speaking?

   <AlexPassant> mattroweshow: yes

   <rreck> i think maybe just adding attributes to the use cases

   fabgandon: very distributing use cases covering different topics
   ... categorised by business and other topics, some of the scenarios
   are not covered by certain fields

   hhalpin: group use cases abstractly?

   fabgandon: good initial step, some are very technical compared to
   others

   <hhalpin> Maybe separate the more technical ones from the less
   technical ones?

   <rreck> im wondering about usecases about situations that ARE being
   dealt with in current implementations

   fabgandon: some scenarios are just functionalities

   <rreck> i think its important to have authors per usecase so there
   is someone to talk to about one

   hhalpin: separate use cases which are functionalities from others.
   use cases have different levels of abstraction. address business
   developers and users
   ... separate use cases into 3/4 buckets

   <hhalpin> someone to talk to?

   fabgandon: need someone to talk to about a use case

   <rreck> i think the use cases should have unique identifiers so that
   we can refer to them from other contexts

   fabgandon: point of call needed for each use case, in order to get
   the details

   <AlexPassant> what about 'champions' for each use-case (as done in
   the SPARQL WG for new SPARQL features)

   what is champions?

   are*

   hhalpin: need author information next to the use case

   <rreck> maybe we can ask author to add themselves to the use case

   <rreck> or champions

   <rreck> +1 champions

   <melvster> +1

   hhalpin: get use case doc by fall

   <FabGandon> +1 for champion / contact per use case

   +1

   <rreck> agreed we need a milestone for usecase "completion"

   <rreck> i think recommendations in the report should/could be tied
   to usecases

   <hhalpin> PROPOSAL: Each use-case gets a champion whose job is to
   determine the audience and the functionality, as well as fill out
   the existing template, and then is needs be rephrase the use-case on
   the right level of abstraction. Use-cases without champions will be
   dropped.

   +1

   <rreck> +1

   <melvster> +1

   <AlexPassant> +1

   <MacTed> +1

   philA: functionality or requirements?

   <rreck> functionality is possibly to technical?

   hhalpin: not designing a tech'

   <hhalpin> funtionality is too technical?

   PhilA1: in use case doc normally have use cases and requirements

   <rreck> at a high level people know what they want, not how it can
   be accomplished

   fabgandon: divide scenario into 2 types: before and after

   <rreck> i think as a group we should focus more on what is to be
   accomplished

   fabgandon: how was the scenario before? what was the requirements?

   <rreck> +1

   hhalpin: what are the initial requirements? what functionalities
   could achieve this?

   <rreck> i think the heavily technical aspects alienate less
   technical participants

   hhalpin: don't specify the tech, but describe what would happen

   <hhalpin> Sounds like a huge amount of work..

   hhalpin: second doc states the tech
   ... moving tech bits to another doc

   <rreck> especially since technology changes while needs might be
   more persistent

   <rreck> yes i think it would benefit from a clean up

   hhalpin: huge amount of work to produce 3 output docs

   <hhalpin> the document is quite long right now...

   hhalpin: clean use case doc needed

   <hhalpin> and a bit chaotic

   <rreck> im overwelmed by looking at the document also

   MacTed: need a clear template of what the use cases should look like

   <rreck> current state as a word bothers me because sometimes the
   current facebook does something i want them to continue to do

   hhalpin: need to refactor the template, and ask for use case
   champions and rework the use case into the template for the right
   level of abstraction. Reduce the use cases to a smaller number

   fabgandon: the doc isnt too big, the use cases are
   ... always look at use cases that are relevant

   <rreck> i would prefer not cutting down the number of usecases

   <rreck> +1 keep usecase without duplicates

   PhilA2: look for duplication of use cases and then merge where
   appropriate

   hhalpin: need to create a new template for the use cases
   ... anyone want to put the template out?

   <rreck> i can contribute to it

   <rreck> but i dont think i can do the whole thing

   <rreck> plus im out next week

   <hhalpin> Would that work?

   <rreck> yes i will make recommendations about how it can be modied

   <hhalpin> ACTION: rreck to send some thoughts on new template to be
   sent out to listserv [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action16]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-65 - Send some thoughts on new template to
   be sent out to listserv [on Ronald Reck - due 2009-08-05].

   <rreck> modified rather

   <melvster> question: what if more than one person wants to champion
   a use case?

   <rreck> i think that is imperative

   champions is a good idea

   <PhilA2> the champion per UC sounds like the way forward to me

   <PhilA2> There's a lot of work that needs splitting up

   hhalpin: use cases to have champions, any objections?

   <hhalpin> RESOLVED: Each use-case gets a champion whose job is to
   fit the use-case to the template, as well as fill out the existing
   template, and then is needs be rephrase the use-case on the right
   level of abstraction. Use-cases without champions will be dropped.

   <PhilA2> +1

   +1

   <melvster> +1

   <FabGandon> +1

   <MacTed> +1

   <hhalpin> 4. Invited Guest Invitations

   <rreck> i think XG participants should attend or give regrets

   <hhalpin> Any suggestions?

   <rreck> invited speakers are good

   hhalpin: have the invited speakers been useful?

   <hhalpin> Should we keep doing this?

   <rreck> +1 continue speakers

   PhilA2: good for the group, opens up discussions

   hhalpin: tradeoff between speakers and how to move forward

   <MacTed> +1 continue

   <rreck> i think focus on deliverables is important

   hhalpin: last 3/4 meetings were invited speakers, should we have
   less speakers and more deliverables?
   ... may not get work done due to speakers

   PhilA2: too time consuming for speakers

   <hhalpin> maybe try to restrict invited speakers to 15-20 minutes,
   10 minutes questions

   hhalpin: what speakers to people want to see first of the ones lined
   up?
   ... can fit in only so many speakers

   <rreck> maybe the speakers can be in a different time slot than the
   meeting?

   hhalpin: send out invitations to get people lined up for september

   PhilA2: 2 slots in sept are already taken

   hhalpin: won't get to the speakers until nov/dec

   <rreck> add time slots

   <melvster> Perhaps someone from Google, eg brad fitzpatrick

   <hhalpin> yes?

   <hhalpin> we can hear you

   <rreck> +1 XMPP

   <PhilA2> Schedule already has two speakers lined for September (see
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule)

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule)

   <hhalpin> OK, let's aim for XMPP and DataPortability in October then

   <PhilA2> (it would be hard to univite someone ;-) )

   mattrowshow: data portability/xmpp speaker

   hhalpin: what is good about the group? what needs to be improved?

   <rreck> i think there should be accountability for participation in
   the group

   hhalpin: abstract the requirements to an empirically gathered matrix
   ... gauge what needs to be done within this field

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri to find someone from Opera to
   talk Widgets [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action17]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri and karl to contact Evan of
   identi.ca over OpenMicroblogging and W3C. [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action18]

   <rreck> +1 commitment

   hhalpin: require editors for documents

   <melvster> I'd be happy to help to try and prepare a document for a
   matrix of use case / functionalities vs social nets

   hhalpin: what documents do people feel that they could input/commit
   to?

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] Renato and DanBri and hhalpin to
   schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action19]

   <rreck> +1 melvster

   <PhilA2> as ever the mind is willing, it's the time...

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [DONE] PhilA to book Dave Raggett to talk about
   Context WG [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action20]

   i will be willing to help on the matrix document too

   <hhalpin> 5. Future Direction of Group Discussion

   hhalpin: need to get requirements out of use case doc and then apply
   it to the matrix
   ... this use case requires X, this use case requires Y

   <rreck> harry you just said the answer to your own question

   hhalpin: columns = network, rows = tech

   <rreck> yes

   <hhalpin> does that make sense as a way forward?

   yep

   <melvster> +1 columns for soc nets, rows for use cases or
   functionalities

   <rreck> you just earned an action item

   <hhalpin> :)

   hhalpin: rows = functionalities

   <hhalpin> It's OK if the matrix is sparsely populated...

   <hhalpin> it shows how much work is to be done :)

   <rreck> good, it means as a group we are ahead of the curve

   +1

   <melvster> +1

   <rreck> +1

   <FabGandon> +1

   <MacTed> +1

   <rreck> -1

   <FabGandon> -1

   <melvster> yes ill take an action

   <hhalpin> ACTION: melvster to draft columns=network rows=tech matrix
   for tech report [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action21]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - melvster

   <hhalpin> Meeting Adjourned

   hhalpin: any other topics to discuss?

   <rreck> bubye

   hhalpin: meeting adjourned

   <PhilA2> see everyone after the break

   <hhalpin> Thanks everyone!

   hhalpin: have draft of use case doc done by 19th august

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: hhalpin take action to clean up the web-page and make
   it less intimidating to those who aren't members [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: hhalpin to summarize metrics and gypsii talk [recorded
   in [35]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: melvster to draft columns=network rows=tech matrix for
   tech report [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action21]
   [NEW] ACTION: rreck to send some thoughts on new template to be sent
   out to listserv [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action16]
   [NEW] ACTION: rreck to write up use case based on situation
   [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action14]
   [NEW] ACTION: rreck to write up use case based on shill case
   [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action15]
   [NEW] ACTION: take action to clean up the web-page and make it less
   intimidating to those who aren't members [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action07]

   [PENDING] ACTION: adam to write up the boeing use case for
   enterprise social networks [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action09]
   [PENDING] ACTION: danbri and karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over
   OpenMicroblogging and W3C. [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action18]
   [PENDING] ACTION: danbri circulate wookie proposal to the xg
   [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action04]
   [PENDING] ACTION: danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets
   [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action17]
   [PENDING] ACTION: danbri to write up orkut/i18n/"looking for" issue
   [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action13]
   [PENDING] ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation
   in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members.
   [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: hhalpin to have [47]http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf
   would refer to the new version, there will be a 'previous version'
   link to the current one [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action06]
   [PENDING] ACTION: hhalpin to write up the social network data
   exchange story [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action10]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and
   conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG.
   [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action05]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mischa to write up Soren and Jonathan's findings
   from last telecon for final report. [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Renato and DanBri and hhalpin to schedule
   DataPortability.org/XMPP [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action19]
   [PENDING] ACTION: tinkster to add user story along lines of... if
   you enable import of contacts from other sites, then it lowers the
   barrier to entry for new people signing up at your site, hence get
   more users, hence get more advertising revenue. [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action12]
   [PENDING] ACTION: tpa to look for similar use cases list to expand
   ours [recorded in
   [54]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action11]

     [47] http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf

   [DONE] ACTION: PhilA to book Dave Raggett to talk about Context WG
   [recorded in
   [55]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action20]
Received on Monday, 3 August 2009 17:59:40 GMT

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