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AW: Library data is expressed primarily as text strings

From: Svensson, Lars <L.Svensson@dnb.de>
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 20:26:08 +0200
Message-ID: <6DA97EFF2763174B8BDC409CA19729840E0EBF4E@dbf-ex.AD.DDB.DE>
To: "Tom Baker" <tbaker@tbaker.de>
Cc: "public-xg-lld" <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
Fine with me!

/Lars

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Dr. Lars G. Svensson
Deutsche Nationalbibliothek / Informationstechnik
http://www.dnb.de/
l.svensson@dnb.de


> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Tom Baker [mailto:tbaker@tbaker.de]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 6. September 2011 20:18
> An: Svensson, Lars
> Cc: public-xg-lld
> Betreff: Re: Library data is expressed primarily as text strings
> 
> On Tue, Sep 06, 2011 at 07:30:11PM +0200, Svensson, Lars wrote:
> > Yes, I'd agree that "natural language" is a good choice here, and
> > understandable for someone who is not a native speaker of English.
> 
> Using "natural language text" would avoid the ambiguity around
> whether "text strings" are any different from other "alphanumeric
> strings" (as in Carlo's reading).
> 
> Would it be too strong to say:
> 
>     Library data is expressed primarily in natural-language text
> 
>     Most information in library data is encoded as display-oriented,
>     natural-language text. ...
> 
> as in [1]??
> 
> Tom
> 
> [1]
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/index.php?title=Draft_issues_
> page_take2&diff=6247&oldid=6216
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: public-xg-lld-request@w3.org [mailto:public-xg-lld-
> request@w3.org]
> > > Im Auftrag von Peter Murray
> > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 6. September 2011 19:12
> > > An: public-xg-lld
> > > Betreff: Re: Library data is expressed primarily as text strings
> > >
> > > I think "natural language" is a good choice of term.  I struggled a
> bit
> > > with a reply but kept getting tangled up in definitions.  "natural
> > > language" cuts through the confusion and tangle for me.  Others?
> > >
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sep 6, 2011, at 12:29 PM, Karen Coyle wrote:
> > > > In other environments I have included the concept of "natural
> > > > language" to distinguish between these concepts. For most non-IT
> > > > people, "text" means "in a human language", and "text string"
> just
> > > > means a bit of human language. We refer to a book or article as
> being
> > > > "text." If I wish to refer to "strings" in the IT sense, I would
> say
> > > > "alphanumeric strings" or something of that nature.
> > > >
> > > > When I look up definitions of text I don't see anything that
> would
> > > > equate the term "text" with a URI. Even the definition of
> "formatted
> > > > text" [1] doesn't equate it with non-language strings.
> > > >
> > > > So maybe the problem here is with the use of "text strings"
> rather
> > > > than "text." Library data is primarily expressed as text -- that
> is,
> > > > as human language. The few uses of formatted data are either
> numeric
> > > > data (used mainly for cartographic materials) and codes (language
> > > > codes, codes for locations, etc.)
> > > >
> > > > kc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Quoting Carlo Meghini <carlo.meghini@isti.cnr.it>:
> > > >
> > > >> Corrected version of my previous message, apologies.
> > > >>
> > > >> Very interesting debate indeed.
> > > >>
> > > >> I am not sure I have followed all the developments, but here it
> > > >> seems to me that the problem is NOT the "text string" per sé. A
> URI
> > > >> (in its abstract syntax) is in fact a text string, and so is an
> > > >> ISBN. The difference between a URI and any other type of string
> is
> > > >> that a URI has a meaning associated to it, and this meaning
> allows
> > > >> an agent (for instance a piece of software), who knows there is
> a
> > > >> URI in a certain place, to do something with the URI (whether
> > > >> display it nicely or dereference it and get back a
> representation).
> > > >> So, a text string is fine, as long as the string conforms to a
> > > >> syntax with an associated semantics.
> > > >>
> > > >> Carlo
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sep 5, 2011, at 11:46 PM, Tom Baker wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 11:41:51PM +0200, Antoine Isaac wrote:
> > > >>>>>> OK, I've tried it in
> > > >>>>>>
> > >
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/index.php?title=Draft_issues_
> > > page_take2&diff=6212&oldid=6141
> > > >>>>>> (be careful, this diff includes quite some other changes,
> > > >>>>>> including a couple by Tom...)
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> This pulls the two points together into one coherent point
> > > >>>>> quite efficiently.  Nicely done!
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> One minor stylistic suggestion:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>  s/especially, changes/in particular, that changes/
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> This reminds me too much of not elegant French constructions,
> I
> > > >>>> could not have thought of that :-)
> > > >>>> But if you think that's alright, feel free to implement it!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> DONE [1]...
> > > >>>
> > > >>> [1]
> > > >>>
> > >
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/index.php?title=Draft_issues_
> > > page_take2&diff=6213&oldid=6212
> > >
> > > --
> > > Peter Murray         Peter.Murray@lyrasis.org        tel:+1-678-
> 235-
> > > 2955
> > > Ass't Director, Technology Services Development
> > > http://dltj.org/about/
> > > LYRASIS   --    Great Libraries. Strong Communities. Innovative
> > > Answers.
> > > The Disruptive Library Technology Jester
> > > http://dltj.org/
> > > Attrib-Noncomm-Share   http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-
> > > sa/2.5/
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> --
> Tom Baker <tom@tombaker.org>
Received on Tuesday, 6 September 2011 18:26:47 GMT

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